Article (Bill Voth): Who Saw This Coming? Pretty Much Everyone

[Benotheking]

47 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

You don't have to have all-pros at every position, but you certainly need NFL-level talent.  Our DBs, outside of Coleman and Boston (as situational), don't appear to be NFL talent.

We have draft a 2nd round and 3rd round DB Ron is supposed to be a great defensive minded head coach that can get more with less that's not looking like the case. How many NFL caliber defensive player's does Dallas have ? Was Sam Bradford consider a NFL caliber QB starter the last 2 years.? New England was winning with back ups. Again every team's has weaknesses' good teams finds ways to win consistently why can't Ron?

[CRA]

 

11 minutes ago, Benotheking said:

We have draft a 2nd round and 3rd round DB Ron is supposed to be a great defensive minded head coach that can get more with less that's not looking like the case. How many NFL caliber defensive player's does Dallas have ? Was Sam Bradford consider a NFL caliber QB starter the last 2 years.? New England was winning with back ups. Again every team's has weaknesses' good teams finds ways to win consistently why can't Ron?

You give Ron Rivera decent NFL talent on defense and he will give you a top 10 defense.  Bottom line.  Coaching isn't the D issue.

the fact our D literally is made up of only DTs and LBs allows every opponent to work around it.  Can't scheme around that 

[Proudiddy]

12 minutes ago, Benotheking said:

We have draft a 2nd round and 3rd round DB Ron is supposed to be a great defensive minded head coach that can get more with less that's not looking like the case. How many NFL caliber defensive player's does Dallas have ? Was Sam Bradford consider a NFL caliber QB starter the last 2 years.? New England was winning with back ups. Again every team's has weaknesses' good teams finds ways to win consistently why can't Ron?

Its amzing how this board pushes the lines out further to fit their narratives.

When we're talking about slow starts for a first rounder they like, the excuse is, "well, this position typically has a big learning curve, so we need to give him some time."  

But, let gettleman blow up a secondary we took to a superbowl and replace them with a bunch of kids that are sucking ass and its "well, why isnt ron winning with these draft picks!!!"

[SamMills4Life]

3 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Its amzing how this board pushes the lines out further to fit their narratives.

When we're talking about slow starts for a first rounder they like, the excuse is, "well, this position typically has a big learning curve, so we need to give him some time."  

But, let gettleman blow up a secondary we took to a superbowl and replace them with a bunch of kids that are sucking ass and its "well, why isnt ron winning with these draft picks!!!"

Ron still has his share of problems. time management, timeout use (Bucs game), and using challenges to name a few. My main problem right now is that our guys sure don't look motivated out there. A team's mentality is everything, and our players look like they are just going through the motions. That's on the coach.

[Benotheking]

28 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Its amzing how this board pushes the lines out further to fit their narratives.

When we're talking about slow starts for a first rounder they like, the excuse is, "well, this position typically has a big learning curve, so we need to give him some time."  

But, let gettleman blow up a secondary we took to a superbowl and replace them with a bunch of kids that are sucking ass and its "well, why isnt ron winning with these draft picks!!!"

 After the Superbowl the Seahawks blow up their O line and still wins again why can't Ron?

[gorillamilitia13]

We should trade for Cameron Wake.

[Benotheking]

40 minutes ago, CRA said:

 

You give Ron Rivera decent NFL talent on defense and he will give you a top 10 defense.  Bottom line.  Coaching isn't the D issue.

the fact our D literally is made up of only DTs and LBs allows every opponent to work around it.  Can't scheme around that 

 

40 minutes ago, CRA said:

ur D literally is made up of only DTs and LBs allows every opponent to work around it.  Can't scheme around that 

So having a front 7 full of 1st to 3rd rounders and 2nd and 3rd CB a FS that was consider a pro bowl isn't enough talent ?

[Proudiddy]

17 minutes ago, Benotheking said:

 After the Superbowl the Seahawks blow up their O line and still wins again why can't Ron?

They still had competency at the positions.  Byron Bell sucked but he started for X number of years in this league.  Remmers sucks.  Oher sucks.  But they start, and they have NFL experience.  Did the seahawks cut all-pros from their OL and replace them with mid-round draft picks?  Lol.

Did their GM stupidly go to the press and volunteer how right he was for doing so?

[Benotheking]

34 minutes ago, SamMills4Life said:

Ron still has his share of problems. time management, timeout use (Bucs game), and using challenges to name a few. My main problem right now is that our guys sure don't look motivated out there. A team's mentality is everything, and our players look like they are just going through the motions. That's on the coach.

But yet you said coaching isn't the problem? our whole defense is out of sync and not just the DB how is that not coaching. Like you said motivation is huge and motivation can determined how good a player plays. So how can you not blame Ron.

[Benotheking]

7 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

They still had competency at the positions.  Byron Bell sucked but he started for X number of years in this league.  Remmers sucks.  Oher sucks.  But they start, and they have NFL experience.  Did the seahawks cut all-pros from their OL and replace them with mid-round draft picks?  Lol.

Did their GM stupidly go to the press and volunteer how right he was for doing so?

The seahwks trade their all pro center also we still have a all pro center they don't and replaced him with a UDFA and a 2nd round OT that sucked at OT OG and now suck at C. They decide not to sign their pro bowl LT and replace him with a UDFA. They have a starting UDFA LT RT and RG. Also when has Dave every done that ?

[jfo89]

8 hours ago, top dawg said:

Finally someone who gets that Gettleman is responsible for personnel decisions, and not trying to lay this fiasco of a secondary at Rivera's feet. And I don't care about long term as has been suggested by some, this season is pretty much wasted. And that's a shame.

 

Lol at least you can admit it. You blend right in with this instant gratification society.

[Proudiddy]

20 minutes ago, Benotheking said:

The seahwks trade their all pro center also we still have a all pro center they don't and replaced him with a UDFA and a 2nd round OT that sucked at OT OG and now suck at C. They decide not to sign their pro bowl LT and replace him with a UDFA. They have a starting UDFA LT RT and RG. Also when has Dave every done that ?

Okay, and how many seasons did they miss the playoffs as a result?  How many did they start 1-5 with a worst ranked unit in the league?  I'll wait.  

You're deflecting from the actual issue at hand.  Masking OL deficiencies is a lot easier than masking an entire backfield of incompetent, inexperienced DBs.  

This conversation has run its course.  You believe Ron can make chicken salad out of the chicken poo gettleman dealt him.  I on the other hand, understand Ron is an average coach, and even if he was fuging Bill Walsh and Buddy Ryan's love child, he couldn't plug that fuging hole with the poo he's been given.  Have fun.

[CPantherKing]

8 hours ago, Carolina Cajun said:

Seriously, Gettleman better thank sweet jesus that he's made so many decent moves before this season because by all accounts he's failed so hard on the personel decisions going into the season that if he had been a GM for 80% of the teams in the NFL, his ass would be fired today.  Put in perspective, I went searching for a team that started as awful as we have following a superbowl run and the only team that I've found that is in the same situation...2004 Carolina Panthers who started 1-7.

Gettleman is great at evaluating talent. The part he has trouble with is valuing every minute a player is on the field and interpreting it to $. I also do not think he is a great team builder. He is excellent at farming talent. Unfortunately, farming talent means you have to be very patient for the Antonio Browns to grow out of the dirt.

With the new CBA and free agency, you must stock the top 10 to 12 roster spots with the best talent in the league. If you have not grown it yet, then you can not be patient with these spots when the team is peaking.

If that CBA changes dramatically in 2020, then Gettleman will have run out of time and have to learn a new system. Younger GMs and older pro personnel directors is the way to go imo.

It is more like the stock market. You can farm your stock picks, but the high frequency trading is going to beat you every time. If you are on the rise and you miss your window, you will be waiting even longer for that window to come back around.

Gettleman is not a stock market kind of guy. He is a money in the mattress garage sale picking kind of guy. Keep moving and that gem will pop up someday.

6 hours ago, rippadonn said:

I was just as pissed in 2004!!! We did nothing to improve. Dave Gettleman wasn't here but results were the same.

It's Jerry

2004 saw Steve Smith and Stephen Davis going down to start the season. That offense was built around Steve Smith and the running game. Then the defense saw the secondary gutted of vet CBs and a system safety. To top it off, the heart of the DL was lost early in Kris Jenkins.

Imagine 2016, with Cam Newton gone for the season in week 1. Jonathan Stewart out for the season after week 2. The secondary being overhauled with youth and one vet safety (we know that one). KK Short lost for the season in week 4. Luke Kuechly and Thomas Davis lost for 4 games of the season. You think it is bad now in 2016? 2004 was overrun with misfortune. If that type of poo storm hit a team, you can not blame the HC or GM. The secondary, while not great, held up well in 2004. It was all the injuries to key players that destroyed that season. That has not happened in 2016. It is clearly all the overlooked personnel areas that are hurting this team.

2 hours ago, Benotheking said:

This what get me every time. Every team has weakness and every Superbowl team had weakness. Why does it seem like people expect us to have all pros and pro bowler at every position to win the Superbowl or just to win. you have teams winning with rookie QB back up QB and bad O-LIne like the Seahwaks and bad defense like Dallas why can't we ?  Yes i blame Dave for not trying to do more this off season but that's not why we are 1-5.

It was not just Norman the team was franchising. It was Norman and Coleman that worked together. Tillman was an easy fit, but Norman was the heart of the secondary. As long as you keep Norman and Coleman together with Coleman at FS, the secondary would have been strong. Boston also worked well with Norman. Without Norman Coleman and Boston are not as good.

Now, it is a complete mess. We have to wait for Coleman or Boston to gel with one of the rookies, and that rookie must be able to compete at an all pro level.

 

[Benotheking]

11 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Okay, and how many seasons did they miss the playoffs as a result?  How many did they start 1-5 with a worst ranked unit in the league?  I'll wait.  

You're deflecting from the actual issue at hand.  Masking OL deficiencies is a lot easier than masking an entire backfield of incompetent, inexperienced DBs.  

This conversation has run its course.  You believe Ron can make chicken salad out of the chicken poo gettleman dealt him.  I on the other hand, understand Ron is an average coach, and even if he was fuging Bill Walsh and Buddy Ryan's love child, he couldn't plug that fuging hole with the poo he's been given.  Have fun.

You know your making the case for me see we are 1 and 5 because Ron is not good and the seahawks are because pete is a winner. You can't really believe that masking an O line is easier then masking a secondary. Its proven in NFL that a great front 7 mask a secondary but no matter if you throw quick passes you still can get a ton of pressure on the QB I.E New England vs Denver.