Mike and Mike In The Morning: Quarterbacks being a leader...

[KillerKat]

The part that stuck out to me is when they said the "defense has to believe that if they give that ball back to the QB he will lead the team to victory"

Yes, I remember him saying that. He was refering to when he played with the Eagles. He said many where talking about how good their defense was and if only they had an offense, they might've been able to do something.

[ChucktownK]

ditto these sentiments.

i have heard nothing says that he isn't a leader on the field. that actually has been considered to be his strongest point by the team.

Well if ya look hard enough there's bound to be one there. I guess that's what they came up with.

[Cyberjag]

Just to clarify, when they said being a leader on the field, they meant the QB has to be the person the team can rely on and come through during pressure. Not whining to the refs after every play, yelling, or pointing to the direction a receiver was supposed to go when he makes a bad throw.

Jake has been rather mediocre through the first three quarters his entire career, with an average rating of around 80 I think. In the fourth quarter his average quarterback rating is around 95. He has more fourth quarter come from behind victories than any active quarterback I can think of right now. Contrast all those games with the other QB we'll see Monday night, who posts great numbers all the way up to when it counts, when he folds like a napkin.

A few games where Jake self destructed early don't tell the whole story on him, except in the hateful memories of a few disappointed fans. The people who have played next to him for years remember every single time they looked up at a losing score with a few minutes left, and watched Jake calmly march the team down the field for the winning score. They believe in him and trust him because on balance, he's more than earned it.

Sorry if I threw cold water on a hate-fest, but there are already plenty around here. We don't need another to get the point that you despise our QB, ok?

[Spike]

People are just mad that the staff has essentially let the QB position atrophy. They have no legitimate players for when Delhomme retires/leaves, Delhomme got a huge extension coming off a mediocre year and pathetic showing in the playoffs, etc.

[magnus]

"locker room" = during team activities. "Off the field" means away from football. There's nothing backwards about where Jake offers his leadership.

[KillerKat]

Jake has been rather mediocre through the first three quarters his entire career, with an average rating of around 80 I think. In the fourth quarter his average quarterback rating is around 95. He has more fourth quarter come from behind victories than any active quarterback I can think of right now. Contrast all those games with the other QB we'll see Monday night, who posts great numbers all the way up to when it counts, when he folds like a napkin.

A few games where Jake self destructed early don't tell the whole story on him, except in the hateful memories of a few disappointed fans. The people who have played next to him for years remember every single time they looked up at a losing score with a few minutes left, and watched Jake calmly march the team down the field for the winning score. They believe in him and trust him because on balance, he's more than earned it.

Sorry if I threw cold water on a hate-fest, but there are already plenty around here. We don't need another to get the point that you despise our QB, ok?

Sorry but thats not true. During '06 and '07 Jake started out strong. In the beginning of '06 he actually showed improvements in decision making and accuracy and mechanics. However, he regressed back to his former self. He showed the same improvements again in '07, but we will never know if he would've been able to keep that up or not. Last year he started off slow, but then the whole year turned out to be his worst. This year he's started off slow again and just had his 3rd worst game ever. That doesn't give us much hope now does it? Jake is not the guy to rely on and is not the guy to pull through while under pressure. Those were the main things Mike and Mark meant when talking about being a leader on the field. What the QB actually did on the field.

Here's a nice article: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3392

[KillerKat]

"locker room" = during team activities. "Off the field" means away from football. There's nothing backwards about where Jake offers his leadership.

locker room means the same as off the field to me because well...it's off the field. Like I said before, they were talking about a QB being a leader with how he played on the field. Someone their teammates can rely on. However, we can't rely on him. He plays poor on the field yet all you hear is heart and leadership ""off the field" or "in the locker room". That don't mean sh*t if he can't produce on the field.

[frash.exe]

Jake has been rather mediocre through the first three quarters his entire career, with an average rating of around 80 I think. In the fourth quarter his average quarterback rating is around 95. He has more fourth quarter come from behind victories than any active quarterback I can think of right now. Contrast all those games with the other QB we'll see Monday night, who posts great numbers all the way up to when it counts, when he folds like a napkin.

4th Quarter comebacks is a now irrelevant statistic originally used to glorify the careers of such all time greats such as Elway and Marino. Different teams use different criteria to gauge how many 4th quarter "comebacks" a QB can make which renders it useless, since there's almost never a fair comparison.

A few games where Jake self destructed early don't tell the whole story on him, except in the hateful memories of a few disappointed fans. The people who have played next to him for years remember every single time they looked up at a losing score with a few minutes left, and watched Jake calmly march the team down the field for the winning score. They believe in him and trust him because on balance, he's more than earned it.

A few bad games doesn't tell the whole story? Jake is, and always has been, a wildly inconsistent QB. Have other QBs that I've touted highly had 4 interception games or more? Yes. (Eli in 2007, Big Ben in 2008) ---they didn't make a fuging habit out of it, and that's where we are with Jake. 3 games out of his last 11 he's done this. Even if he's rallying the team down the field for a winning score 10 games, if he's screwing up to the point that the team can't get to the next level, we need someone better. That's the point we're making, it's not about "oh he has more good games than bad ones" it's really, "is he having too many bad games for the panthers to advance?"

Sorry if I threw cold water on a hate-fest, but there are already plenty around here. We don't need another to get the point that you despise our QB, ok?

Well if a QB plays bad, bet your best money that people are going to criticize him for it. He doesn't get a reprieve just for being a nice guy, or what he did 6 years ago. It's passive aggressive posting like this that makes me think all that you can back up with your opinion is "hope". There's no rationale about it.

I don't know, I guess I'm one of those silly geese that thinks occasional displays of complete QB ineptitude is unacceptable.

[weyco2000]

Foxey relies on his bend but dont break defense, ball control by running the ball and a QB that doesnt turn the ball over. Well that plan is shot to hell. If Jake has around 200 yds passing, we usually have a good day.

[Cyberjag]

Sorry but thats not true. During '06 and '07 Jake started out strong. In the beginning of '06 he actually showed improvements in decision making and accuracy and mechanics. However, he regressed back to his former self. He showed the same improvements again in '07, but we will never know if he would've been able to keep that up or not. Last year he started off slow, but then the whole year turned out to be his worst. This year he's started off slow again and just had his 3rd worst game ever. That doesn't give us much hope now does it? Jake is not the guy to rely on and is not the guy to pull through while under pressure. Those were the main things Mike and Mark meant when talking about being a leader on the field. What the QB actually did on the field.

Here's a nice article: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3392

Good article, but it stops the stats at 2000 because it's just looking at Marino and Elway.

Take a look at this website: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/index.asp

It lists stats for quarterbacks in a wide variety of situations, and that's the source of my "Delhomme has been mediocre through three, strong in the fourth" assertion. It lets you see his ratings by quarter. NFL.com has similar splits.

As for comments on mechanics and such, you're not an expert on that and the ones who are haven't exactly been out there talking about what needs to be fixed over the past six years. This year the quarterbacks coach changed the exercises, not to fix anything but because he had a different style than the guy before him. Jake fixed his mechanics in NFL Europe, not in Carolina.

And last year he was certainly statistically better than 2003 and 2006, and he posted his best regular season record ever. I'm not sure why you think it was his worst year. You say he started slow, have you gone back and looked at early ratings he had in previous years? And there are so many variables at play, it's silly to make judgements like that over the first two games. He had a very good first few games in 2007, but he was playing two home games and a road team that he always does well against.

The bottom line is, he's beem more or less consistent over the course of a season in his performance over the years. It's not great, it's not terrible. And when he's bad he's bad the entire game. But when he's not his game improves greatly in the fourth quarter, and he does lead the team to a lot of comeback victories. Last year he did it in San Diego, against Chicago, in Green Bay, and against New Orleans. It's no wonder the team believes in him.

4th Quarter comebacks is a now irrelevant statistic originally used to glorify the careers of such all time greats such as Elway and Marino. Different teams use different criteria to gauge how many 4th quarter "comebacks" a QB can make which renders it useless, since there's almost never a fair comparison.

A few bad games doesn't tell the whole story? Jake is, and always has been, a wildly inconsistent QB. Have other QBs that I've touted highly had 4 interception games or more? Yes. (Eli in 2007, Big Ben in 2008) ---they didn't make a f**king habit out of it, and that's where we are with Jake. 3 games out of his last 11 he's done this. Even if he's rallying the team down the field for a winning score 10 games, if he's screwing up to the point that the team can't get to the next level, we need someone better. That's the point we're making, it's not about "oh he has more good games than bad ones" it's really, "is he having too many bad games for the panthers to advance?"

Well if a QB plays bad, bet your best money that people are going to criticize him for it. He doesn't get a reprieve just for being a nice guy, or what he did 6 years ago. It's passive aggressive posting like this that makes me think all that you can back up with your opinion is "hope". There's no rationale about it.

I don't know, I guess I'm one of those silly geese that thinks occasional displays of complete QB ineptitude is unacceptable.

You're never going to be happy with Jake, so it's almost pointless to respond. But when the last drive of a game the quarterback leads the team on results in a lead change and a win, that's a fourth quarter comeback. Everything else you posted about is just so much white noise.

Jake has more than enough comebacks for his teammates to believe in him, and their comments bear that out. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I don't think they give a rats ass about your opinion--the people who actually know how to judge a quarterback are behind him and believe he's a winner. And they have a lot more credibility with me than you do.

Enjoy your rant though, I'm sure it feels good to impotently vent about stuff over which you have no control.

[Zod]

Jake has more than enough comebacks

How many in the past 3 seasons? How many teammates were not around when he could comeback from behind?

[Kevin Greene]

How many in the past 3 seasons? How many teammates were not around when he could comeback from behind?

Good question.

Lets just look at last year since Delhomme was out most of 2007 with Tobey Joan surgery or whatever the hell it was.

Game 1, miracle last second game winning touchdown to Resario.

Game 2, 4th quarter TD to beat Da Bears 20-17.

Then we blew out a bunch of teams or got blown out.

Game 13 out scored the Packers in Lambeau 14-10 in the 4th to win 35-31.

Finally there was Arizona. Pretty much everyone has confidence problems after that one and will continue to do so until the Panthers find their mojo again.

With whatever players and coaches that will be.

[frash.exe]

Jake has more than enough comebacks for his teammates to believe in him, and their comments bear that out. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I don't think they give a rats ass about your opinion--the people who actually know how to judge a quarterback are behind him and believe he's a winner. And they have a lot more credibility with me than you do.

Enjoy your rant though, I'm sure it feels good to impotently vent about stuff over which you have no control.

and i don't give a fug if they do not care, they probably only care about the opinions of those who just agree with them.

just know that no other franchise in the entire league would tolerate Jake and not bench him after playing this badly this often. the fact that you perpetuate this apologetic movement for delhomme tells me you're just another one of "them". Those people who continue to live in the past to accept the present and put their 2003 NFC Champions shirt on once every week like it's still relevant.

and I'd like to go on a limb out there and let you know that here and now today, whatever "4th Quarter Comebacks" or other erroneous stats you have at your disposal, some of which were accumulated >4 years ago are pretty much worthless in today's NFL, and pretty much give an inaccurate depiction of how good Delhomme really is here and now when he can't handle the blitz and heaves the ball hopelessly into coverage.

You're never going to be happy with Jake, so it's almost pointless to respond. But when the last drive of a game the quarterback leads the team on results in a lead change and a win, that's a fourth quarter comeback. Everything else you posted about is just so much white noise.

I suggest you read Killerkat's article, which you probably haven't, because you're almost totally wrong on that. There is no official criterion which renders it useless.

[Saint J]

Two of Jake's 4th quarter comebacks from last year consist of prayers thrown to SS(GB NO), and with a decent FS the ball would have been picked off vs. the Saints.