Who is REALLY getting double teamed? RESULTS POSTED

[Felipe Vieira]

I did the same thing in the game against Atlanta. Guess what? Same thing!

99 - 8
98 - 15
77 - 3
95 - 1
90 - 4
93 - 1

Look at the image below. Double teams in DT and Ealy being blocked by the TE... again!

I didn't find no one being thripled teamed, but i find 4 blocking... Thomas Davis.

I'll do the count in the other games also. 

[grateflday]

3 hours ago, punkpanther said:

This is why Butler was drafted. Is it possible last year was just a fluke for kk...all signs point to yes

Sent from my HTC One using CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

Well I usually say I need to trust the GM and coaches on players, drafts, etc..... so then if this is the case the Gettlemen really screwed up cause he let Norman walk so he could use that money to sign KK.  If they were really thinking last year might have been a fluke then you at least have Norman back under the franchise tag and I'm not buying he was gonna hold out.  They let him walk in order to sign KK long term and save money for some other guys.  My guess is they thought Butler was BPA and picked him.... similar to the years Hurney picked Beason even though we had Morgan, and then Luke even though we had Beason.  

[tiger7_88]

3 minutes ago, grateflday said:

Well I usually say I need to trust the GM and coaches on players, drafts, etc..... so then if this is the case the Gettlemen really screwed up cause he let Norman walk so he could use that money to sign KK.  

How do you know it was for KK?  Or just for KK?

Considering how well Star played last year and how well he's playing this year, maybe its for Star?  You do remember Star Lotuleilei don't you?

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What?  Elite outside pass rushers will often get chipped by a TE or RB, but true double teams by offensive linemen are almost always reserved for DTs.

 

I will have to break it down with video. KK is not beating double teams consistently to get his 11 sacks last season. Same with Star.

So, why do DTs not get doubled? That is the answer.

There is only 1 natural OL double team with a 4 man rush, and when you flex a 4 man DL, you can now dictate where that double team will go.

What blows this up is a single edge rusher who can dominate and disrupt the offense. At the very least, if a DE can not dominate, then they must disrupt.

This will force both DTs to be single blocked or force the offense to commit more blockers with TEs and RBs.

When an offense is committing 6 blockers on a play and doubling down on both DTs, then this means your team has serious problems at DE.

Many seem to forget how much of an impact Jared Allen was last season. He may have not been dominant, but he was always disruptive. He was able to move OL into the QB passing lane, angle off a QBs movement in the pocket, and make the QB hesitate.

The sack KK had against the Saints was a good example of Allen's impact. He pulls his man back behind KK and then fakes a stunt around KK, which pulls KKs blocker off KK. Allen has both OL focused on him for a split second. Allen then spies the QB to protect the edge and the inside escape route for the QB. The result is KK being released to the QB for a sack. He essentially pulled a delayed double team.

The DTs began dominating when Allen was added to the roster. His disruptive/technical play from the DE position was the key. That is the value of a good DE.

A good DL needs 1 great disruptive and dominant DE, or 2 disruptive DEs. Currently there are no dominant DEs. The Panthers only have one consistently disruptive DE in CJ. Ealy seems to be a lost cause.

[grateflday]

6 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

How do you know it was for KK?  Or just for KK?

Considering how well Star played last year and how well he's playing this year, maybe its for Star?  You do remember Star Lotuleilei don't you?

I am going by what I recall Gettleman saying about letting Norman walk.  i am pretty sure he mentioned the need to sign KK long term in addition to other contracts which they tried to do right up to the start of the season, but couldnt come to an agreement.  And yeah he also mentioned the need to sign other players, and I sure do remember Star along with some other contracts come up.  I am not saying we didn't need the money for players and why he let Norman go.. just not sure they drafted Butler in case KK was a fluke.  But who knows, maybe.  Either way this season has been a huge bust so far.

[Kakarot]

15 minutes ago, grateflday said:

Well I usually say I need to trust the GM and coaches on players, drafts, etc..... so then if this is the case the Gettlemen really screwed up cause he let Norman walk so he could use that money to sign KK.  If they were really thinking last year might have been a fluke then you at least have Norman back under the franchise tag and I'm not buying he was gonna hold out.  They let him walk in order to sign KK long term and save money for some other guys.  My guess is they thought Butler was BPA and picked him.... similar to the years Hurney picked Beason even though we had Morgan, and then Luke even though we had Beason.  

Right, and even if you think Norman was going to hold out, you take that bluff. I don't think he would've held out, though. With the way our D Line is playing, you need a player like Norman now more than ever. These rookies have been put in a horrible spot. Gettleman screwed up bad on this. 

[punkpanther]

22 minutes ago, grateflday said:

Well I usually say I need to trust the GM and coaches on players, drafts, etc..... so then if this is the case the Gettlemen really screwed up cause he let Norman walk so he could use that money to sign KK.  If they were really thinking last year might have been a fluke then you at least have Norman back under the franchise tag and I'm not buying he was gonna hold out.  They let him walk in order to sign KK long term and save money for some other guys.  My guess is they thought Butler was BPA and picked him.... similar to the years Hurney picked Beason even though we had Morgan, and then Luke even though we had Beason.  

Both Morgan and Beason were done, and Hurney knew it. I'm not saying KK is done, I'm just of the opinion that Gettleman knows more than any of us.

[CPantherKing]

49 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What?  Elite outside pass rushers will often get chipped by a TE or RB, but true double teams by offensive linemen are almost always reserved for DTs.

 

Here is a great video that shows the value of a disruptive or dominant DE. This is from the Seattle playoff game last season.

The play is a designed TE screen. Jared Allen completely blows it up and forces Russell Wilson to stay in the pocket. The hesitation occurs and KK comes running free for the sack.

This was 90% Jared Allen, but KK gets the spotlight.

The DEs the Panthers have now, outside of CJ, would likely pursue down the line and never acknowledge the pulling OL thinking it is a run.

Jared Allen was a factor on several of KKs sacks last season.

The DEs must free up the DTs. The DTs must free up the LBs in a 4-3.

[LinvilleGorge]

38 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Here's a little hint for you:

In the defense that we run?  Which is primarily a zone scheme?  You got it *totally* backwards, baw.

It has nothing to do with a zone scheme. 4-3 DEs rarely face double teams from offensive linemen. Like almost never. They line up either covering the OTs outside shoulder or even outside of the OT if lined up in the 9 technique which we'll do a lot of tines whem we ahow the double A gap pressure with Luke and TD. When those guys see a double team it's almost always from a TE or a back and often a chip-style double team where that player will then go out and run a delayed check down route. Due to the formation, a double team of the DE with two OL is virtually impossible. The reason 3-4 DEs tend to be more power oriented players is because they do routinely face double teams as they usually lineup directly opposite the OT where an OG can easily help.

[LinvilleGorge]

31 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

I will have to break it down with video. KK is not beating double teams consistently to get his 11 sacks last season. Same with Star.

So, why do DTs not get doubled? That is the answer.

There is only 1 natural OL double team with a 4 man rush, and when you flex a 4 man DL, you can now dictate where than double team will go.

What blows this up is a single edge rusher who can dominate and disrupt the offense. At the very least, if a DE can not dominate, then they must disrupt.

This will force both DTs to be single blocked or force the offense to commit more blockers with TEs and RBs.

When an offense is committing 6 blockers on a play and doubling down on both DTs, then this means your team has serious problems at DE.

Many seem to forget how much of an impact Jared Allen was last season. He may have not been dominate, but he was always disruptive. He was able to move OL into the QB passing lane, angle off a QBs movement in the pocket, and make the QB hesitate.

The sack KK had against the Saints was a good example of Allen's impact. He pulls his man back behind KK and then fakes a stunt around KK, which pulls KKs blocker off KK. Allen has both OL focused on him for a split second. Allen then spies the QB to protect the edge and the inside escape route for the QB. The result is KK being released to the QB for a sack. He essentially pulled a delayed double team.

The DTs began dominating when Allen was added to the roster. His disruptive/technical play from the DE position was the key. That is the value of a good DE.

A good DL needs 1 great disruptive and dominant DE, or 2 disruptive DEs. Currently there are no dominant DEs. The Panthers only have one consistently disruptive DE in CJ. Ealy seems to be a lost cause.

Now this I agree with. We are getting nothing from our DEs. When teams keep in additional blockers, they focus on our DTs because they're our better players. We compound that by threatening the A gap with Luke and TD. The defense has to account for one or both of those guys coming and if they don't come, DTs are gonna get doubled off of that. Unfortunately, our DEs simply aren't good enough to take advantage of their constant one on one matchups.

[KillerKat]

I wish we never brought CJ back and drafted and/or signed better DEs.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, KillerKat said:

I wish we never brought CJ back and drafted and/or signed better DEs.

Me too.  I feel like getting CJ back made us think we could steal another season with our current DEs. I'm sure we thought Kony would take another step in his development and CJ would bounce back and be better. Instead, CJ is his same washed up self - the effort is there, but the ability isn't - and Ealy is just? Ealy is just WTF. I don't know who that guy was wearing his jersey in the Super Bowl, but that's the only real standout performance for an entire game that we've ever seen from him.

[CPantherKing]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Now this I agree with. We are getting nothing from our DEs. When teams keep in additional blockers, they focus on our DTs because they're our better players. We compound that by threatening the A gap with Luke and TD. The defense has to account for one or both of those guys coming and if they don't come, DTs are gonna get doubled off of that. Unfortunately, our DEs simply aren't good enough to take advantage of their constant one on one matchups.

None of the DEs are dominant.

CJ is the only disruptive DE, but he is more limited than Jared Allen was last season.

When a DE who can not be dominant is unable to move OLs into passing/running/escape lanes, quickly read pulling guards for a possible screen, and show no instinct for containment, then they should not be on the field as an every down player. What is worse is a DE who is not dominant and forces the issue of being dominant losing their awareness of the the movement of the offensive play on the field.

 

[greghardy'sAK-47]

Our Dline is getting stood up.  Our Oline is on skates.  Hog mollies!!!!!!  We don't need no fuging Josh Norman!!!