Are the Panthers going to be sucessful in the cover 2?

[Cyberjag]

Kiffin's Defense imploded on prime time tv against us no less (and it didn't go up from there) and your using it as success story. Yeah 5 or 6 years ago it was a successful scheme. Now it is a dying (fastly) scheme that will be all but extinct within 5 years. As the great Bill Walsh once said "In Coaching you have to reinvent yourself each year."

Well, you're ignoring the Colts' and Bears' success with it, and just looking at Tampa Bay here to try and make an argument. Too bad that your strategy in this debate has the fundamental flaw of relying on a premise that's factually incorrect.

Kiffin's defense imploded when he told the team he was leaving, it had nothing to do with the scheme they ran. And it was a top defense in the league every year and through the season up until when he said he was leaving. The numbers speak for themselves - nine consecutive seasons finishing among the NFL’s top ten defenses, seven of them in the top five, and a Super Bowl title in 2002 behind the league’s top ranked defense.

The Cover 2 was also the foundation of the Steel Curtain defenses of the 70s. Dennis Green built Minnesota's great defenses in the 90s around it. You already know about Tampa's, even if you don't care to admit it. It's been around so long and it's been as successful as it has because it works. When it's properly implemented, it's very difficult to beat.

The Cover 2 requires a solid pass rush and good safety play. That's one of the problems we have here--we're not getting a good push from our defensive line and Harris has been dinged up. It's also vulnerable in the deep middle, which the Tampa-2 variant addresses by dropping the middle linebacker down between the safeties. Beason's been having trouble with that, but I believe he'll catch on soon. And once those issues get worked out the defense here will be just as effective as it has been around the league for decades.

[jramsey4]

Well, you're ignoring the Colts' and Bears' success with it, and just looking at Tampa Bay here to try and make an argument. Too bad that your strategy in this debate has the fundamental flaw of relying on a premise that's factually incorrect.

Kiffin's defense imploded when he told the team he was leaving, it had nothing to do with the scheme they ran. And it was a top defense in the league every year and through the season up until when he said he was leaving. The numbers speak for themselves - nine consecutive seasons finishing among the NFL’s top ten defenses, seven of them in the top five, and a Super Bowl title in 2002 behind the league’s top ranked defense.

The Cover 2 was also the foundation of the Steel Curtain defenses of the 70s. Dennis Green built Minnesota's great defenses in the 90s around it. You already know about Tampa's, even if you don't care to admit it. It's been around so long and it's been as successful as it has because it works. When it's properly implemented, it's very difficult to beat.

The Cover 2 requires a solid pass rush and good safety play. That's one of the problems we have here--we're not getting a good push from our defensive line and Harris has been dinged up. It's also vulnerable in the deep middle, which the Tampa-2 variant addresses by dropping the middle linebacker down between the safeties. Beason's been having trouble with that, but I believe he'll catch on soon. And once those issues get worked out the defense here will be just as effective as it has been around the league for decades.

I know Tony Dungy brought the Cover 2 back into the league after it had been almost extinct and reinvented it to come up with the Tampa 2. Which as you said the main variant between the cover to and the Tampa 2 the Safeties are out wider and the MLB controls the middle of the field. But your using the Colts as a success story when other then the one Super Bowl team the Colts where average at best defense (and even then the didn't turn it on till the playoffs). Throughout his history there the colts had problems on D especially against the run.

The Bears defense hasn't been the same since there Super Bowl appearance.

2007

Yards/G: 354.6 (28th)

Points: 21.75 (16th)

Rushing Yards/G: 122.9 (24th)

Passing Yards: 231.7 (27th)

Turnovers: 33 (8th)

Sacks: 41 (6th)

2008

Yards/G: 334.6 (21st)

Points: 21.8 (16th)

Rushing Yards/G: 93.5 (5th)

Passing Yards: 241.1 (30th)

Turnovers: 32 (2nd)

Sacks: 28 (23rd)

If you want to use the Bucs as an example I can understand that they have very good in the Tampa 2 but I don't agree with the Colts and Bears and wouldn't call them something worth emulating. The main issue with the Tampa 2 or Cover 2 is that it is a bend but don't break defense. It allows the short completions will preventing the long ones. But as you can see by how that worked out against Atlanta we couldn't stop the on 3rd and anything because Ryan could check down all game long. It might be successful here but it would take a Dline which I fear we will never have again.

I have given this Formation props it was a great scheme just like the 5-2 was it has just outlived its effectiveness. In another 15 0r 20 years somebody will bring it back into the limelight and we will start this all over. Don't wont something that works as our D because I have seen nothing out of this formation since losing Jenkins. Its like some people wanting us to run the wildcat more we just don't have the pass threat that most teams do so its hard to be successful with it.

[N1kkadeemuz]

We should run a 4-4 with Davis Connor Beason Anderson. Hell the season's looking bleek anyway let's try something new.

[jramsey4]

We should run a 4-4 with Davis Connor Beason Anderson. Hell the season's looking bleek anyway let's try something new.

I agree and Godfrey isn't extacly looking like a starter anyway. At this point I would love just anything that shows this Coaching Staff is trying. Its not like we could get much worse.

[CatMan72]

That's the problem, the cover 2 depends on good safety play and so far Harris has been out and Godfrey has been struggling.

I think we should look at bringing in a veteran FS who has played in the cover 2 so they can fill in for Godfrey if needed and otherwise tutor him.

[Cyberjag]

I know Tony Dungy brought the Cover 2 back into the league after it had been almost extinct and reinvented it to come up with the Tampa 2. Which as you said the main variant between the cover to and the Tampa 2 the Safeties are out wider and the MLB controls the middle of the field. But your using the Colts as a success story when other then the one Super Bowl team the Colts where average at best defense (and even then the didn't turn it on till the playoffs). Throughout his history there the colts had problems on D especially against the run.

The Bears defense hasn't been the same since there Super Bowl appearance.

2007

Yards/G: 354.6 (28th)

Points: 21.75 (16th)

Rushing Yards/G: 122.9 (24th)

Passing Yards: 231.7 (27th)

Turnovers: 33 (8th)

Sacks: 41 (6th)

2008

Yards/G: 334.6 (21st)

Points: 21.8 (16th)

Rushing Yards/G: 93.5 (5th)

Passing Yards: 241.1 (30th)

Turnovers: 32 (2nd)

Sacks: 28 (23rd)

If you want to use the Bucs as an example I can understand that they have very good in the Tampa 2 but I don't agree with the Colts and Bears and wouldn't call them something worth emulating. The main issue with the Tampa 2 or Cover 2 is that it is a bend but don't break defense. It allows the short completions will preventing the long ones. But as you can see by how that worked out against Atlanta we couldn't stop the on 3rd and anything because Ryan could check down all game long. It might be successful here but it would take a Dline which I fear we will never have again.

I have given this Formation props it was a great scheme just like the 5-2 was it has just outlived its effectiveness. In another 15 0r 20 years somebody will bring it back into the limelight and we will start this all over. Don't wont something that works as our D because I have seen nothing out of this formation since losing Jenkins. Its like some people wanting us to run the wildcat more we just don't have the pass threat that most teams do so its hard to be successful with it.

Dungy didn't bring it back, it was already in use in some of the top defenses of the 90s. The problem with the base cover 2 that Dungy saw was the zone between the safeties was vulnerable to the pass, so he compensated by dropping the mike back into coverage. That's it, nothing fancy or earth-shattering. That's why the Tampa 2 is called a Cover 2 variant.

The fact is that the Cover 2 has been in use around the league since the 70s with a consistent degree of success. Just like every defense out there, a team requires talent and execution to be successful with it. Every year there's a team that's great in the cover 2, and every year there are teams that run it without being very effective. Usually (almost always) those teams have a gap in their personnel (think Sanders being out for the Colts, or Urlacher for the Bears). And as you'll no doubt see again this year, just because a team runs the 3-4 doesn't mean they'll be any good. ANY defense requires talent and execution.

If you think that the WCO has made the Cover 2 obsolete, then how has it persisted through the 80s, 90s, and into today without going by the wayside? A good example of what happens when a defense is made obsolete can be seen by the old 46 defense of the Bears. Now THAT was a defense that was vulnerable to the WCO. And as a result, it disappeared.

The Cover 2 remains an effective defense. If we get it working properly, it will work well here.

[Cyberjag]

By the way, we failed against Atlanta because we kept allowing longer passes, not the three yard completions. A Cover 2 will let you get 3-4 yard completions, and that's ok because the odds are you won't get six completions in a row, which will inevitably result in a fourth down.

Look at what Ryan did though, with no pressure you're never going to stop that. And that goes for any defensive set--you can send linebackers all day long but if they don't get there in time you're just opening yourself up for even longer completions.

[Wither]

Doesn't work for me in Madden either. :wink:

If it's an absolutely passing down (3rd and 10 and longer), use Cover 2 Sink and throw everyone, including the line, into zone coverage. It works. If it's any down and/or 3rd with less than ten yards, use a Cover 2 with three linemen (with the corners covering the flats) and throw those three linemen into coverage or let them rush.

If they decide to run it anyway (draw or delay) then 10 yards should be enough for 9 of your guys to rush to the RB and take him down.

It's also a great formation in Madden for interceptions, although I find more success using house blitzes and eight man rushes and manually adjusting for tight ends and such (throwing one rusher into zone, etc.).

[Snake]

Not unless we can get to the QB. Im getting tired of hearing that Peppers was doubled and all. Good players find ways...... You dont think Michael Strahan was doubled all his carrier? So unless the 17mill man and his team mates get to the QB then no its not gonna work.