Go Broncos

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Success>Busts. Of course the GM who leverages the draft for more picks will have more busts. Look at the ratio of impact picks:seasons. That will tell you everything. If one GM drafts 10 players in a single season and 3 are impact players while the other GM drafts 5 players in a season and 2 are impact players, then the GM with 3 impact players is doing better. I would even weight the impact picks. 1 Cam Newton > 1 Shaq + 1 Funchess.

All Hurney team: 11 seasons

Cam Newton; Stephen Davis; Jonathan Stewart; Steve Smith; Muhsin Muhammad; Keyshawn Johnson; Greg Olsen; Jeremy Shockey, Jordan Gross; Evan Mathis; Ryan Kalil; Mike Wahle; Jeff Otah.

Julius Peppers; Mike Rucker; Kris Jenkins; Brenston Buckener; Luke Kuechly; Jon Beason; Thomas Davis; Josh Norman; Chris Gamble; Ken Lucas; Terry Cousin; Deon Grant; Chris Harris.

All Gettleman team: 4 seasons

Joe Webb; Cameron Artis-Payne; Fozzy Whitaker; Kelvin Benjamin; Ted Ginn Jr; Jerricho Cotchery; Ed Dickson; Scott Simonson; Michael Oher; Andrew Norwell; Fernando Velasco; Trai Turner; Mike Remmers.

Kony Ealy; Jared Allen; Star Lotulelei; Kawann Short; Shaq Thompson; AJ Klein; Chase Blackburn; Peanut Tillman; Antoine Cason; Melvin White; James Bradberry; Roman Harper; Kurt Coleman.

All Hurney would destroy All Gettleman. At best, Gettleman is even on DT and S. Overall, Gettleman is about halfway to Hurney's tenure and is far off from Hurney's impact. Gettleman's rate of success needs to pick up some speed. It has been very slow.

Facts really are tough for you, aren't they.

Hurney didn't draft Steve Smith. George Seifert did. And if you want to say he becomes Hurney's because he extended him then Cam and Luke become Gettleman's because he extended them.

Plus, Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Cousin, Mike Wahle...lol.

Given that you're comparing eleven years to four, would you like for us to put up a list of all of Hurney's bust picks? Or perhaps we could just discuss that it only took Gettleman three years to match the success that it took Hurney eleven to reach.

My word, you're terrible at this.

[CPantherKing]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Facts really are tough for you, aren't they.

Hurney didn't draft Steve Smith. George Seifert did. And if you want to say he becomes Hurney's because he extended him then Cam and Luke become Gettleman's because he extended them.

Plus, Keyshawn Johnson, Terry Cousin, Mike Wahle...lol.

Given that you're comparing eleven years to four, would you like for us to put up a list of all of Hurney's bust picks? Or perhaps we could just discuss that it only took Gettleman three years to match the success that it took Hurney eleven to reach.

My word, you're terrible at this.

Hurney built a team from scratch that went to the SB in 2003 and a NFC Championship game in 2005. All that in 4 seasons.

Gettleman has not built a team from scratch. He liked what the previous GM put together as a foundation and kept it without doing much to improve it. In fact, he did more to hurt it than help it. Gettleman has rode the team to a SB. He needs to get the Panthers to the NFC Championship game at least this season to be somewhat on pace with Hurney. Gettleman has 4 more seasons before he has to approach the next rebuild.

I look at SB and Conference championship games as a measure for a GM. I could care less about 7-8-1 losing seasons that gets the team a consolation trip to the playoffs.

Gettleman was limited in 2013 and just rode what was built. Gettleman's true first season was 2014, and his impact was definitely felt. Looks like 2014 and 2016 are a good reflection of Gettleman, while 2015 appears to be an anomaly.

As for Steve Smith, he was not drafted by Seifert to be a WR. Hurney did help draft Smith in 2001 under Seifert, and wanted him to be a WR. When Hurney took over he counted Smith as a primary WR in the 2002 rebuild.

I would expect a football historian to know that.

[Mr. Scot]

25 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Hurney built a team from scratch that went to the SB in 2003 and a NFC Championship game in 2005. All that in 4 seasons.

Gettleman has not built a team from scratch. He liked what the previous GM put together as a foundation and kept it without doing much to improve it. In fact, he did more to hurt it than help it. Gettleman has rode the team to a SB. He needs to get the Panthers to the NFC Championship game at least this season to be somewhat on pace with Hurney. Gettleman has 4 more seasons before he has to approach the next rebuild.

I look at SB and Conference championship games as a measure for a GM. I could care less about 7-8-1 losing seasons that gets the team a consolation trip to the playoffs.

Gettleman was limited in 2013 and just rode what was built. Gettleman's true first season was 2014, and his impact was definitely felt. Looks like 2014 and 2016 are a good reflection of Gettleman, while 2015 appears to be an anomaly.

As for Steve Smith, he was not drafted by Seifert to be a WR. Hurney did help draft Smith in 2001 under Seifert, and wanted him to be a WR. When Hurney took over he counted Smith as a primary WR in the 2002 rebuild.

I would expect a football historian to know that.

Again, facts are not your strong suit.

The team Hurney "built from scratch" included Muhsin Muhammad, Mike Rucker, Mike Minter, Dan Morgan, Kris Jenkins, Steve Smith, Jeno James and Deon Grant among others, none of whom were Hurney picks. Oh, and the "he didn't draft Smith as a receiver" argument is just stupid.

You might also recall (or apparently you don't) that Steve Smith didn't become a star player immediately under Hurney. It was, in fact, during extension negotiations that Hurney referred to Smith as either "unproven" or "marginal" depending on who you believe.

Pretty clear you either don't know the history of this team or choose to misrepresent it. Either way, you're a phony.

[ncfan]

2 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

Hurney built a team from scratch that went to the SB in 2003 and a NFC Championship game in 2005. All that in 4 seasons.

Gettleman has not built a team from scratch. He liked what the previous GM put together as a foundation and kept it without doing much to improve it. In fact, he did more to hurt it than help it. Gettleman has rode the team to a SB. He needs to get the Panthers to the NFC Championship game at least this season to be somewhat on pace with Hurney. Gettleman has 4 more seasons before he has to approach the next rebuild.

I look at SB and Conference championship games as a measure for a GM. I could care less about 7-8-1 losing seasons that gets the team a consolation trip to the playoffs.

Gettleman was limited in 2013 and just rode what was built. Gettleman's true first season was 2014, and his impact was definitely felt. Looks like 2014 and 2016 are a good reflection of Gettleman, while 2015 appears to be an anomaly.

As for Steve Smith, he was not drafted by Seifert to be a WR. Hurney did help draft Smith in 2001 under Seifert, and wanted him to be a WR. When Hurney took over he counted Smith as a primary WR in the 2002 rebuild.

I would expect a football historian to know that.

Holy crap

Come on get the fug out of here with "Hurney wanted Smith to be a WR".  It has been quited tons of times Smith coming in WE as the organization not Seifert wanted him coming in as a return specialist who could get his shot at WR if earned.  Football historian my azz.

Now to the Seifert built the team and Gettleman didnt.  Seifert had a solid core and a #2 pick. Coming in 2002. Gettleman had a young QB who was drafted #1 via Hurney (after that wonderful team he built was last in the whole nfl) in the most stacked draft at the top in history. And then a top 10 pick at MLB. Those were his 2 big guys Gettlemen inherited for the future. 

Gettleman has won as many NFC championships and more conference championships in his first 3 season as Hurney did in 11.

People fault Gettleman for his lack of signing big FA.  Lets see here, this is the whole reason Hurney got run out of town.  He dug this team in the hole by throwing out money like a bunch of these "new" panthers fans are begging for.  This is how the Miami Dolphins are in a hole, along with several other bottom feeders.  I hear everyday down here on the local miami sports radio how sick they are all binded in cap hell and have failed in the draft recently (hmm sounds alot like Hurneys time here and the opposite of Gettlemans). The broncos (minus talib whos FA stock took a hit with his on and off the field antics, plus peyton who wasnt even a factor in the superbowl run) that team was built through the draft.  The Seachickens who i saw you mention above, Avril was not a big FA pickup just a average one.  Harvin was a bad pickup who didnt do anything and they shipped him out soon after (so to use him as a example is dumb) Beastmode was about out of the league with his antics in Buffalo.  That Seattle team was built through the draft.  Greenbay, Pittsburgh, etc the guys who win every year build through the draft.  It brought up Every year.  It has been proven the last handfull of years the ones who spend the most in the offseason are the ones at the bottom the next couple of years.

 

Lets look at the draft now

2015 and 2016 draft the verdict is still out

2014

Benjamin- 1,000 yard WR rookie season, destroyed Norman in training camp prior to ACL tear last yeat

Ealy- DE generally takes a long time to develope as a rookie.  Started to blossom the end of last year.  Set a recod in the superbowl last year and wouldve been the MVP of the superbowl if we pulled it out.

Trai Turner-Probowl OG

Boston-Solid backup great special teams player, no worse than former 2nd round pick sherrod martin

Benewikere- solid rookie season and sophomore season.  Had a real tough injury at the end of the season last year and had a rough time recovering. Came in out of shape.

FA- Philly Brown better WR than Lafail or Gettis was here.

Norwell- one the top OG in the NFL

 

2013

Star-one of the tougher NT in the league

KK- All-Pro last year

Kug- was a bust

AJ Klein- top tier backup, many can argue he could start on half of the teams in the league.

Barner-never turned out

 

 

Now Hurneys

2012

Kuechly- stud top 10 pick

Amini- average OG fought injuries, solid backup when healthy

Frank Alexander- solid DE that has had  ton of off the field issues

Joe Adams- didnt even last a year, playing arena league now

Nortman- pretty good punter, but this new guy Gettleman looks much better

2011

Cam- needed a QB we got it. We also had many other holes so whoever Hurney chose here would most likely good in this most stacked top half of a draft in history.

Terrell McClain- lasted 1 season

Fua- lasted 2 season. Was a part of one of the worst DT duos in team history.

Hogan- lasted 2 seasons

Pilares- lasted 3 seasons, currently in the CFL

 2010

Jimmy Clausen- after not having a 1st rounder because we traded it for Everrett Brown.  Disaster that partially resulted in us having the worst nfl record and the top pick getting our QB in Newton.  Jimmy last 3 years and has bounced arou d as a backup and out of the league now

LaFell- stone hands who made his money blocking.  Moved onto New England then ran out of town to Cinnci now.

Armanti- traded away the next years 2nd rounder.  Lasted 4 years rarely activated out of the league now

Norwood- last just over a year, was his last NFL team. Now in the CFL

Hardy- this one fell in our lap, was projected a top tier pick but had red falgs all over him which is why teams passed on him. He behaved for 4 seasons then those red flags showed

Gettis- showed flashes rookie year.  Got injured and released after 2nd season.  Got cut by CFL team last year

Jordan Pugh-- lasted 1 season

Tony Pike- lasted one season and never saw the NFL again.

2009

Everrette Brown- traded away our first round pick in 2010 for him. Lasted 2 seasons.  Bounced around the league now out.

Sherrod Martin- lasted 4 years.  Had 7 ints but was burned badly often.  Not resigned. Bounced around 2 teams the next 2 years before out of the league.

Corey Irvin-  lasted just over a year here. Bounced around trying out for a couple teams, now in the CFL

Goodson- lasted 3 seasons, played a season in Oakland.  Signed with the jets got hurt and no longer playing

Fiammetta- lasted 2 seasons, hasnt played since 2014

Duke Robinson- lasted 3 seasons.  Signed and released before camp by tennessee. Bounced around the arena league.

Captain- solid nickle corner now with the vikings.

2008

Jonathon Stewart- solid RB hit hard by injuries, yet thrown a top 5 rb salary

Otah- traded away next years top pick. Looked to be a solid pick at the right side. Hit by injuries and lost heart to play the game.

Godfrey- average safety, similar to Mitchell we had the other year.  Recieved a top 5 safety deal by Hurney.

Dan Connor- lasted 4 seasons with carolina. Less of a player than Klein is.  And one could say Mayo looks to possibly be a better player. Not resigned, bounced around the and out in 2013.

Gary Barnidge- showed flash. Not resigned by Hurney. Picked up by Cleveland and looked good last year.

Nick Hayden- lasted 3 seasons.  Bounced around and cut by the browns this year.

2007

 Beason- good player hit by injuries

Jarrett- played 4 years. Didnt do anything and out of the league

Kalil- stud Center

Charles Johnson- been a key in this DL and a solid player.

Ryne Robinson- lasted a year.  Tryed out for the UFL  and didnt make it

Dante Rosario- lasted 4 years. Bounced around now reunited with Fox.

Tim Shaw- lasted a year. Last saw the NFL in 2012

 

Other notable 2nd round picks

Bruce Nelson, Keary Colbert, Eric Shelton

[LA_Panther]

Broncos blaming poor coaching, bad drafting and not thinking of the OLine, and some calling it a season already.

Not like I haven't heard that before.

Broncos still have a defense

Sent from my LGLS991 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[uncfan888]

Well Mr. Scot just obliterated his argument.. haha

[uncfan888]

And damn those Marty Hurney drafts are hard to look at. How can anyone think he's better than gettleman haha

[csx]

CPantherking needs to brush up on his Panthers history or at least google before he posts. Moose and Jenkins and Smith and Rucker? wtf? why not throw Minter in too?

[Icege]

I will never understand why people consider Frank Alexander or Tre Boston to have been a solid anything.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

4 hours ago, csx said:

CPantherking needs to brush up on his Panthers history or at least google before he posts. Moose and Jenkins and Smith and Rucker? wtf? why not throw Minter in too?

oh man, who doesn't remember where they were when hurney drafted kerry collins

[d-dave]

So I didn't get a chance to watch any football Sunday (it was great!  Spent time with my family!) so I'm relegated to reading and watching highlights.

After watching the limited NFL.com highlights and reading about the game, the Falcons are doing a much better job of exploiting mismatches.  Their Oline also had a great game against the Broncos as well.  Because the Broncos were so keen to stop Jones and their other WRs, the running backs were able to cause damage.  It helped that they could run free instead of having to sit back and block first.

Lessons Learned:

1. Have a good game at OL

2. Exploit mismatches by having a good OL game.  When a QB has time to throw, any defense will get picked apart.

On to the rest of this thread:  I love the ole Rose Colored Glasses looking back on the incredible talent and depth on the Hurney years.  Hindsight is supposed to be 20/20, not magic!  Did Gettleman make some mistakes?  Yep, everyone does.  Hurney made some monumental mistakes, hence why he's not a GM anymore.  

Right now, Gettleman has done much more good than bad.  Let's get back to the plan instead going full reactionary.  Bring in the best guys instead of glaring needs.