Brutal Honesty

[beastson]

It aint gonna do you any good til January at least. If Fox were to be fired midseason, that would leave Davidson as HC and who knows who at OC.

Uh Davidson would call the plays. There are coaches that takes over that either defensively or offensively

I question Fox will to win. Then, no. Now... Idk

[Mother Grabber]

Unfortunately, I don't think firing Fox will have any more of an effect than dropping Turgo or Henning did. The culture for this team starts at the top with JR himself. Everything about the Panther experience is conservative. Not just the play on the field, but the rules about the stadium and game day. JR is a conservative guy, and he runs a conservative organization. Fox is a JR type of guy. If they can Fox, we'll get another one just like him to take his place. Hurney has shown some aggressiveness on draft day, quite successfully, I might add, but seems to otherwise play it tight just like everyone else.

JR is a well respected guy throughout the league and the team seems to genuinely care for him. I have never met the guy, but I have a ton of respect for him and how he doesn't take any crap. Being a stand up guy and running a successful football team, however, do not necessarily go hand in hand. There are a lot of things I like about the way this team is run. They don't cater to whiners or asshead just to get or keep some super stud. That takes some major cahones in an era that is so short sighted. We have to accept, however, that as long as JR is on the top of the mountain, we will never have a fast paced team. We will be 8-8 +/- 3 every year. Sometimes we'll make the playoffs, sometimes we won't. And, that's about all we can expect.

[Cyberjag]

I would respectfully point out that Dom Capers was anything but conservative on defense. I think JR is more interested in high character guys than being conservative on the field.

[rayzor]

just catching up on this thread...

i agree with mr. scot. expecting a change at this point is pretty likely going to end in disappointment. looking down the road at the path the team is on and wanting change is fair.

i've grown tired of it all. i, like quite a few others, have been talking a a 'wait and see' approach. no need to make any big moves right now, just wait and see what fox does with this year. many have thought that meant being a blind homer because we weren't on the "BURN EVERYTHING DOWN!!!!" bandwagon that is as equally short sighted as those true homers who don't want to do anything. the way it looks now, fox won't be be able to do what we were hoping he would have to do if he was going to keep his job. that doesn't mean we are expecting complete failure but we aren't saying that it is out o the question either. if he can't get the job done, find someone who can. we have seen enough of fox to know what he is capable of and at some point we are going to have to make the change.

Imma just go on record that I think anyone thinking Cowher without Dick LeBeau is an upgrade on Fox is retarded.

my hope is that cowher would find the next lebeau or bring lebeau himself here. i trust cowher in being able to pick the right coaches to get the job done.

7-9 or worse = new HC and GM. 8-8 or better without a playoff berth and it'll be 50/50. Winning season and a trip to the postseason and Fox isn't going anywhere.

this is kind of what i have been thinking for a long time. that is what i was thinking going into last year. the FO and the team looked like it was heading in the right direction and they wewre able to win so it bought some time. the only 2 things that fox has really been lacking is putting together a team that can win the whole thing and a team that can win back to back winning seasons. the way you broke it down is completely reasonable.

Cowher won on the backs of Capers and LeBeau

Gruden took advantage of everything Dungy did, and was successful because of Kiffin

By Frazier I guess you mean Dungy, who despite Peyton Manning still maintained the old "One and Done-gy" playoff tradition in Indy for a long time before winning it

Shanahan had a HOF quarterback for most of his career

Let me just add that without Tom Brady, Bill Bellichick would be an badly dressed assistant coach somewhere.

If you want to win in the NFL, and win it all, you either need a great quarterback or a great defense. The coach can generally have more impact on the defense than he can in getting the great QB. So if you're looking for big-time success, either we need to go 3-13 next year and take a star QB in the draft, or we need to find the next Mike Nolan, Dom Capers, Dick Lebeau, Jim Johnson, Monte Kiffin, Rex Ryan, etc. That person needs to be our defensive coordinator, not our head coach. Give Fox a defensive genius to work with and it will be like night and day out there.

And whoever it is, his name is NOT Mike Trgovac or Ron Meeks. It could have been Del Rio, but he's a HC now so we'll never know.

i think you're on to something. cowher would have to ahve the right coaching staff around him. getting a true defensive minded coach and also bringing in a good QB will take this team a long way. it's just finding those two things that would be the tough one. having to endure a 2-13 season with a new coach would be really tough and most of the fan base would be calling for his head and whining about how we were better off with fox but if the end result was getting a really good QB to build with, i could be ok with it all.

I think it's fair to consider whether or not a new HC is needed two weeks into the season when a 12-4 playoff team is floundering as badly as the Panthers are. This team is loaded with talent and we can't seem to put it to good use. I'm not saying Fox is a bad coach, but sometimes a change is needed. I know we have a tough schedule but I don't think there's any excuse for this team to not have a winning record this season. If this team goes 8-8 or worse, Fox should be shown the door.

totally agree here.

CatMan, what do you think Jeff Fisher's status in Tennessee should be right now? More secure or less than Fox's?

fisher should have been on the hot seat a long time ago. the titans have been more than patient, imo. fisher is a good coach in some regards but he hasn't accomplished that one big goal that every team desires. he hasn't gotten them a ring. if fisher struggles and has a losing season, especially after having a year like last year then sure, they should probably look another direction. i would just hope that the panthers would make a move first in getting their coach.

[Mr. Scot]

Good points Rayzor (and sorry it took me a while to respond).

Playing off your last point, here's a thought: If Fox were let go and if Fisher were to be let go (in a Mike Shanahan type move) how interesting would it be to see the Titans look to a guy like John Fox as a replacement?

[Dpantherman]

Most people's problem with fox is inconsitency. how many times do we have to go through the every other year crap? But u are right. We are jumping the gun, but needless to say with good reason. THis team has 0 consistency. If the offense plays well, one side of the ball sucks. in ATL it was the defense and ST. Phi it was everything. I dont blame the defense, because they were set up for failure the entire game because of the offense and what else--Special Teams. If we lose, at least leave me feeling like we have executed to the best of our ability. give me something to be happy about.

[jramsey4]

Most people's problem with fox is inconsitency. how many times do we have to go through the every other year crap? But u are right. We are jumping the gun, but needless to say with good reason. THis team has 0 consistency. If the offense plays well, one side of the ball sucks. in ATL it was the defense and ST. Phi it was everything. I dont blame the defense, because they were set up for failure the entire game because of the offense and what else--Special Teams. If we lose, at least leave me feeling like we have executed to the best of our ability. give me something to be happy about.

ST has been a weakness for so long, I honestly am flabbergasted that Crossman still has a job. If it wasn't for Mark Jones he would have nothing to brag about whatsoever.

[Dpantherman]

for the record. i am fully aware of my spelling errors. just thought i would beat everyone to the punch

[Mr. Scot]

One of my longstanding issues with Fox has been a general lack of balance.

When we can run, we can't pass. When we can pass, we can't run.

When we can defend the run, we stink against the pass. When we can defend the pass, we stink against the run.

And it isn't just this year. These trends stand over most of Fox's Panthers career. The teams Fox puts on field never quite seem able to balance it all out.

Not honestly sure why it is, but it is

(what it is)

[jramsey4]

One of my longstanding issues with Fox has been a general lack of balance.

When we can run, we can't pass. When we can pass, we can't run.

When we can defend the run, we stink against the pass. When we can defend the pass, we stink against the run.

And it isn't just this year. These trends stand over most of Fox's Panthers career. The teams Fox puts on field never quite seem able to balance it all out.

Not sure why it is, but it is

(what it is)

"You must spread your Rep around before giving it to Mr. Scot"

You are too good sir.

[frash.exe]

One of my longstanding issues with Fox has been a general lack of balance.

When we can run, we can't pass. When we can pass, we can't run.

When we can defend the run, we stink against the pass. When we can defend the pass, we stink against the run.

And it isn't just this year. These trends stand over most of Fox's Panthers career. The teams Fox puts on field never quite seem able to balance it all out.

Not honestly sure why it is, but it is

(what it is)

this is true. and too often the fact that there is very little threat to pass when we can run and vice versa allows opponents to focus on what we're doing good to shut the offense down.

when talking about NFL offenses, one dimension is no dimension.

[fignewty314]

We the South Champs till we get knocked off.Last time I looked,we are only 2 games back!

[Matt Foley]

If Fox goes during the year, especially early, I would hire Schottenheimer. He fixes things. It's what he does. Then, when he chokes in the playoffs again, you bring in a young bright mind to take over the ship.

[jramsey4]

If Fox goes during the year, especially early, I would hire Schottenheimer. He fixes things. It's what he does. Then, when he chokes in the playoffs again, you bring in a young bright mind to take over the ship.

I think if your a franchise that is horrible with little talent like the Chargers were when he took over, then Schot is perfect to rebuild and restock the talent. But I think this team has the talent they just need a kick in the pants.