Brutal Honesty

[Cyberjag]

I was watching the Panthers and Falcons. Ryan was rarely blitzed, and wasn't even knocked down. The Panthers brought pressure up close to stop the run, but never sent extra at the quarterback. Just because a couple of adolescent know-nothings in a message board thread declared that they blitzed doesn't mean they did. But I bet their word is good enough for you, huh?

[DaCityKats]

i seen the blitz as well, and it looked like kids going against men.......we couldn't get a push to save our lives.this has not changed at all.tampa 2 corners do not play 10 yards off.......same d from last year,with maybe a couple of tweaks...

[KillerKat]

I was watching the Panthers and Falcons. Ryan was rarely blitzed, and wasn't even knocked down. The Panthers brought pressure up close to stop the run, but never sent extra at the quarterback. Just because a couple of adolescent know-nothings in a message board thread declared that they blitzed doesn't mean they did. But I bet their word is good enough for you, huh?

Well I was watching the game too like I stated above. Guess I'll just let you continue thinking Turgo is great.

[Cyberjag]

I never said Trgo was great, but I'll certainly continue thinking you're an overly confrontational unimaginative jackass.

[bleys]

John Fox plays a conservative game plan that always gives the team a chance for victory or defeat unless they totally outclass the competition or are totally outclassed themselves.

In and of itself, not a horrible idea, considering the amount of parity in the NFL.

However, this game plan will not work if:

1. We have multiple turnovers (Offense) - Conservative plans leave little room for error. They also present little chance for error (running the ball and going for the long ball in one on one situations generally don't produce a ton of turnovers). If someone on the the offense (or even worse, ST's) turns the ball over often, game over.

2. We constantly lose the position battle (Special teams) - If the other team constantly gets better field position (or even worse TD's) off of ST's, Foxball is dead.

3. We cannot stop the other team, especially on 3rd downs (Defense) - If we can't stop the pass, we will fall behind. If we can't stop the run, we will never catch up. If we can't stop the other team on 3rd downs, we cannot be conservative on offense (which in turn leads to turnovers)

The last two weeks have seen a complete breakdown of all three tenants.

I'm not sure whose game plan could have overcome game 1's errors.

funny enough, his game plan rarely is high of praise... or should I say his adjustments. fill in the blank with either.

[Jangler]

What game were you watching last Sunday?

I wanna know what game you were watching.

I was watching the Panthers and Falcons.

[CatMan72]

I think it's fair to consider whether or not a new HC is needed two weeks into the season when a 12-4 playoff team is floundering as badly as the Panthers are. This team is loaded with talent and we can't seem to put it to good use. I'm not saying Fox is a bad coach, but sometimes a change is needed. I know we have a tough schedule but I don't think there's any excuse for this team to not have a winning record this season. If this team goes 8-8 or worse, Fox should be shown the door.

[Cyberjag]

CatMan, what do you think Jeff Fisher's status in Tennessee should be right now? More secure or less than Fox's?

[KillerKat]

I was watching the Panthers and Falcons. Ryan was rarely blitzed, and wasn't even knocked down. The Panthers brought pressure up close to stop the run, but never sent extra at the quarterback. Just because a couple of adolescent know-nothings in a message board thread declared that they blitzed doesn't mean they did. But I bet their word is good enough for you, huh?

I can only get so much from highlight films but put it at 1:52 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQMMXYad1H4

And :22 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ5g8VdWVis

There were also a couple of other blitzes I saw as well that I can't show on video. We also blitzed against the Eagles but was hardly successful just like against Atlanta.

Under Turgo, there was hardly any blitzing. That's why you kept hearing people yelling, me included, about us not blitzing that much last year and previous years. Turgo was not creative or brought pressure and certaintly didn't let us play man to man.

Did you watch the playoff game last year? Fitz even said after the game that he was surprised Gamble didnt cover him when he went on the opposite side of the field. The same problems we had last season on defense are the same problems we're having this year. There is only 1 constant and that's Fox. It's so obvious that he runs the defense, especially after he went after a coordinator of one of the worst defense's in the league! Meeks is just Fox's puppet.

[Cyberjag]

Trgo sent linebackers and defensive backs all the time. There's a difference between blitzing and blitzing well, and he had plenty of the former and not so much of the latter. I never said he blitzed better, just that he blitzed more. There's more than one way to generate pressure, he chose misdirection and blitzes.

Meeks is much more straight up than Trgo was; his playbook is not nearly as complex. And you don't have to take my word on it, just do a simple web search on Trgovac's playbook. Last year at this time the players were giving credit to their fast start to him finally simplifying it. Go read the articles on Meeks the beat writers were putting out around the time of his hiring. Look for where he discusses pressure and the blitz. It's all out there.

The base scheme is Fox's, the implementation belongs to the coordinator. That's never been under debate, has it? But in the implementation, you can make things look pretty different if you're the one calling the plays. Meeks and Trgo have very distinct styles. The results may be the same, but that doesn't mean they were produced in the same way.

[ShutDwn]

Look at the history of how teams do if they lose their first two games. It isn't good, and our schedule is among the worst.

One thing that coaches should prove if they are around a while is the ability to learn from the past. John Fox didn't learn anything from the Vinny Testeverde days, or the days where we had nobody on the defensive line. The problems that we were dealing with are the same as they were then.

I never believed that last year saved John Fox's job, in my opinion, it just opened the door for the next part of saving it. If the Panther's sucked last year, he was out, if they played well, he stayed so that he could attempt to put back to back seasons together.

I think a lot of coaches could win at most every other year if that is all their job entailed.

Blaming injuries isn't an excuse either. Every team has them and yes some are bigger than others, but it just reveals how unprepared you were for that injury to happen. Our drafting and development has been complete poo and our lack of depth is the result of that. Everyone knew we were weak at defensive tackle and QB, instead we picked defensive backs that can get torn apart in coverage no matter how good they are.

[KillerKat]

Trgo sent linebackers and defensive backs all the time. There's a difference between blitzing and blitzing well, and he had plenty of the former and not so much of the latter. I never said he blitzed better, just that he blitzed more. There's more than one way to generate pressure, he chose misdirection and blitzes.

Meeks is much more straight up than Trgo was; his playbook is not nearly as complex. And you don't have to take my word on it, just do a simple web search on Trgovac's playbook. Last year at this time the players were giving credit to their fast start to him finally simplifying it. Go read the articles on Meeks the beat writers were putting out around the time of his hiring. Look for where he discusses pressure and the blitz. It's all out there.

The base scheme is Fox's, the implementation belongs to the coordinator. That's never been under debate, has it? But in the implementation, you can make things look pretty different if you're the one calling the plays. Meeks and Trgo have very distinct styles. The results may be the same, but that doesn't mean they were produced in the same way.

Then what happened the 2nd half of last season? Something happened between that point and where we are now where our defense started to suck. We gave more cushion to the receivers every game. We gave up playing man-to-man. We hardly blitzed at all. Everything points to that Fox got involved and started controlling more and more. Could be the reason why Turgo decided to leave along with the other defensive coaches. And is the reason why we're in the crap hole we're in now on defense.

[bleys]

actually, on the note of Gamble not solely covering Fitzgerald.. Must have been game 1 this year, but I did see Gamble moving from one side to the other when the WR he was covering went in motion to the other side of hte field..

Could only listen to game2 on the radio, so cannot comment on that one.. Thought I'd point that out, not sure if he did that all game though...

[Cyberjag]

Then what happened the 2nd half of last season? Something happened between that point and where we are now where our defense started to suck. We gave more cushion to the receivers every game. We gave up playing man-to-man. We hardly blitzed at all. Everything points to that Fox got involved and started controlling more and more. Could be the reason why Turgo decided to leave along with the other defensive coaches. And is the reason why we're in the crap hole we're in now on defense.

Well now you're off on a tangent but at least it's finally in the right direction. But before you lay all the blame on Fox, consider that we started getting dinged up on our defensive line about then. Darwin Walker started missing games in week 10 to a neck injury, meaning our only viable backup at DT was Gary Gibson. Even then we were a top ten defense until we rolled into New York and got rolled ourselves. In that game Lewis got knocked out, and we were already without Kemo.

So Fox got involved, but at the same time we started getting dinged up. I don't know what he said or did or if it was him or the teams we played, but there's no denying we were worse in the second half than the first. But we were still a top ten defense in week 15.