Brutal Honesty

[Delhommey]

I realize it is kinda silly for me to chime in on theoretical coaching changes for a team that I don't follow "die hard" style but.....

If I was picking a new coach and GM for you guys I'd go with trying to pry Dungy out of the pulpit and Ted Sundquist as the GM.

Just a thought.

I really don't care for Gruden or Cowher, Shanny is ok.

Holmgren would be ok too.

I'd take the Walrus for his QB developing abilities, but the WCO would take too long and too much of an overhaul in strategy and personnel.

[Cyberjag]

Cowher won on the backs of Capers and LeBeau

Gruden took advantage of everything Dungy did, and was successful because of Kiffin

By Frazier I guess you mean Dungy, who despite Peyton Manning still maintained the old "One and Done-gy" playoff tradition in Indy for a long time before winning it

Shanahan had a HOF quarterback for most of his career

Let me just add that without Tom Brady, Bill Bellichick would be an badly dressed assistant coach somewhere.

If you want to win in the NFL, and win it all, you either need a great quarterback or a great defense. The coach can generally have more impact on the defense than he can in getting the great QB. So if you're looking for big-time success, either we need to go 3-13 next year and take a star QB in the draft, or we need to find the next Mike Nolan, Dom Capers, Dick Lebeau, Jim Johnson, Monte Kiffin, Rex Ryan, etc. That person needs to be our defensive coordinator, not our head coach. Give Fox a defensive genius to work with and it will be like night and day out there.

And whoever it is, his name is NOT Mike Trgovac or Ron Meeks. It could have been Del Rio, but he's a HC now so we'll never know.

[Epistaxis]

The WCO could mean the rebirth of Smith, IMO.

Nobody YACs like that guy. I really wish he would have been in a Bear uniform, not that Moose guy.

[Peppers90 NC]

i hope we promote from within if fox is gone..because so many new coaches come in here and make so many unnecssary moves like cuting good players just to bring in there own guys and i think this team has a good core.

That would be nice, but I don't think we have anyone like that now. We have a bunch of "YES" men.

[Peppers90 NC]

Cowher won on the backs of Capers and LeBeau

Gruden took advantage of everything Dungy did, and was successful because of Kiffin

By Frazier I guess you mean Dungy, who despite Peyton Manning still maintained the old "One and Done-gy" playoff tradition in Indy for a long time before winning it

Shanahan had a HOF quarterback for most of his career

Let me just add that without Tom Brady, Bill Bellichick would be an badly dressed assistant coach somewhere.

If you want to win in the NFL, and win it all, you either need a great quarterback or a great defense. The coach can generally have more impact on the defense than he can in getting the great QB. So if you're looking for big-time success, either we need to go 3-13 next year and take a star QB in the draft, or we need to find the next Mike Nolan, Dom Capers, Dick Lebeau, Jim Johnson, Monte Kiffin, Rex Ryan, etc. That person needs to be our defensive coordinator, not our head coach. Give Fox a defensive genius to work with and it will be like night and day out there.

And whoever it is, his name is NOT Mike Trgovac or Ron Meeks. It could have been Del Rio, but he's a HC now so we'll never know.

If we go 3-13, all that means SF gets a top 3 pick. And I am afraid Fox will not bring in a DC that will do anything different than what Fox wants done here.

[Delhommey]

The WCO could mean the rebirth of Smith, IMO.

Nobody YACs like that guy. I really wish he would have been in a Bear uniform, not that Moose guy.

I will never, ever, ever understand why they never ran more slants with Smith.

Never.

[pstall]

7-9 or worse = new HC and GM. 8-8 or better without a playoff berth and it'll be 50/50. Winning season and a trip to the postseason and Fox isn't going anywhere.

Thats fair and reasonable

[CRA]

Cowher won on the backs of Capers and LeBeau

Gruden took advantage of everything Dungy did, and was successful because of Kiffin

By Frazier I guess you mean Dungy, who despite Peyton Manning still maintained the old "One and Done-gy" playoff tradition in Indy for a long time before winning it

Shanahan had a HOF quarterback for most of his career

Let me just add that without Tom Brady, Bill Bellichick would be an badly dressed assistant coach somewhere.

If you want to win in the NFL, and win it all, you either need a great quarterback or a great defense. The coach can generally have more impact on the defense than he can in getting the great QB. So if you're looking for big-time success, either we need to go 3-13 next year and take a star QB in the draft, or we need to find the next Mike Nolan, Dom Capers, Dick Lebeau, Jim Johnson, Monte Kiffin, Rex Ryan, etc. That person needs to be our defensive coordinator, not our head coach. Give Fox a defensive genius to work with and it will be like night and day out there.

And whoever it is, his name is NOT Mike Trgovac or Ron Meeks. It could have been Del Rio, but he's a HC now so we'll never know.

he will likely be unemployed when the season is over also....

I watched a video online a few weeks ago about the 2003 season. The attitude and mindset of that D set it apart.....sure the DL was 10 x better....but they went out with the mindset to make plays and kick ass.....this group overall looks as vanilla as the play calling.

[GRWatcher]

John Fox plays a conservative game plan that always gives the team a chance for victory or defeat unless they totally outclass the competition or are totally outclassed themselves.

In and of itself, not a horrible idea, considering the amount of parity in the NFL.

However, this game plan will not work if:

1. We have multiple turnovers (Offense) - Conservative plans leave little room for error. They also present little chance for error (running the ball and going for the long ball in one on one situations generally don't produce a ton of turnovers). If someone on the the offense (or even worse, ST's) turns the ball over often, game over.

2. We constantly lose the position battle (Special teams) - If the other team constantly gets better field position (or even worse TD's) off of ST's, Foxball is dead.

3. We cannot stop the other team, especially on 3rd downs (Defense) - If we can't stop the pass, we will fall behind. If we can't stop the run, we will never catch up. If we can't stop the other team on 3rd downs, we cannot be conservative on offense (which in turn leads to turnovers)

The last two weeks have seen a complete breakdown of all three tenants.

I'm not sure whose game plan could have overcome game 1's errors.

No coach, not even Belicheat, would have a game plan that consistently wins with those 3 problems.

[Cyberjag]

If we go 3-13, all that means SF gets a top 3 pick. And I am afraid Fox will not bring in a DC that will do anything different than what Fox wants done here.

That's why I said next year.

And Fox has let all of his DCs have a fair amount of say in the scheme. Look at how different it is from last year.

[cgarsmoker]

No coach, not even Belicheat, would have a game plan that consistently wins with those 3 problems.

I'm sure Belicheat wouldn't bring in players a and build his team round players with those characteristics either. These players didn't fall from the sky - they are all here because Hurney/Fox brought them in or drafted them.

Nice try but what else you got?

[Zod]

John Fox is the most successful head coach in Panthers history. No one else is even close. It's an objective, verifiable fact and can't really be argued with any credibility.

Sure, its a fact. But its a bit like saying Barack Obama is the most successful Black president in history.

It implies greater success than deserved.

So yes, John Fox is the best of the three coaches the Panthers have had. Not as glowing an endorsement, no?

[GRWatcher]

I'm sure Belicheat wouldn't bring in players a and build his team round players with those characteristics either. These players didn't fall from the sky - they are all here because Hurney/Fox brought them in or drafted them.

Nice try but what else you got?

Not trying anything. Making a comment on the internetz webz. :hat:

[Zod]

John Fox is the third worst coach in Panthers history.