Brutal Honesty

[Mr. Scot]

Let's start this discussion with a little objective reality.

John Fox is the most successful head coach in Panthers history. No one else is even close. It's an objective, verifiable fact and can't really be argued with any credibility.

Step two: A little rational thought.

Giving serious consideration to firing your head coach two weeks into the season is silly. One week into the season is even sillier, to the point of being stupid. There's way too much time left, and no matter how many stats you quote about past trends, no one has any clue about what's going to happen.

So with that as a background, why are we talking about finding a successor to John Fox?

(and when I say 'we', I mean 'we'; I'm taking part too)

The reality of it: Familiarity breeds contempt, and other people getting shiny new toys while we're stuck with the same old set of Tinkertoys provokes envy.

Point blank, we're tired of John Fox. I'm tired of John Fox. I've got enough disagreements with his approach that I could easily see someone else being brought in. And yes, whether it's rational or not, it feels like we have a ceiling with him. And right now, we'd need a step ladder just to reach even that high.

But if you look at it rationally, it's not a lock that this season will suck. And even if it does, it's not a given that firing John Fox and/or Marty Hurney for someone else's retread or the next hot thing is an automatic path to glory.

Bottom line for me: I'm comfortable discussing where the franchise could and/or should go in the event this season is a disaster and new leadership is needed.

It needs to be remembered though that things are still very much up in the air at this point. And if you pin your hopes on getting a new coach right now, you could very easily find yourself sorely disappointed this time next year.

[Peppers90 NC]

Good post, I'm tired of focusing on what bad could happen and go back to the hope we had 4 weeks ago. If the season is a failure, hopefully our FO will make good decisions in fixing it, I will trust NFL people to do the right thing, rather than read a bunch of no-name losers on this board post their two little worthless ignorant pennies.

The reality of it: Familiarity breeds contempt, and other people getting shiny new toys while we're stuck with the same old set of Tinkertoys provokes envy.

Beautiful quote by the way.

[Fiz]

at what point will it suddenly not be silly for me to want fox gone because lol ain't poo gonna change

[Delhommey]

John Fox plays a conservative game plan that always gives the team a chance for victory or defeat unless they totally outclass the competition or are totally outclassed themselves.

In and of itself, not a horrible idea, considering the amount of parity in the NFL.

However, this game plan will not work if:

1. We have multiple turnovers (Offense) - Conservative plans leave little room for error. They also present little chance for error (running the ball and going for the long ball in one on one situations generally don't produce a ton of turnovers). If someone on the the offense (or even worse, ST's) turns the ball over often, game over.

2. We constantly lose the position battle (Special teams) - If the other team constantly gets better field position (or even worse TD's) off of ST's, Foxball is dead.

3. We cannot stop the other team, especially on 3rd downs (Defense) - If we can't stop the pass, we will fall behind. If we can't stop the run, we will never catch up. If we can't stop the other team on 3rd downs, we cannot be conservative on offense (which in turn leads to turnovers)

The last two weeks have seen a complete breakdown of all three tenants.

I'm not sure whose game plan could have overcome game 1's errors.

[pstall]

I think no matter what happens this season. It will be a huge roll of the dice for Jerry Richardson.

Do you roll and get Fox/Hurney again or roll and go with a possible unknown and young blood?

Look at what the Falcons did last year. Not only going away from McKay but a rookie GM AND head coach!!

[Peppers90 NC]

at what point will it suddenly not be silly for me to want fox gone because lol ain't poo gonna change

It aint gonna do you any good til January at least. If Fox were to be fired midseason, that would leave Davidson as HC and who knows who at OC.

[unicar15]

I understand that point of view but at this point there are THREE extremely succesful super bowl winning HCs out there. Sticking with John Fox when there are so many other promising coaches out there would be a mistake IMO. I don't care if we go 9-7 or 10-6 (optimistic IMO) this season and make the playoffs as a wildcard. Unless we win the super bowl this year (which doesn't look likely after 2 weeks) John Fox shouldn't be our HC.

We are running out of years with guys like Steve and Moose. We have to start thinking about resigning Deangelo (who knows if he wants to come back if we cont. in the same direction). Peppers is probably gone which means that Fox will have one of the worst Ds in the league...and he isn't willing to change. We obviously need a new QB sooner than later. There is just a lot of turnover that needs to happen and I don't feel like having this regime put their stamp of approval on the team again.

Cowher

Gruden

Frazier

Shanahan

Those are the HCs that we need to target and in that order. After that little summit that Richardson had with Fox/Hurney at the end of the 07 season, I have a feeling that if expectations aren't met (aka playoffs) they will be gone.

[Delhommey]

Imma just go on record that I think anyone thinking Cowher without Dick LeBeau is an upgrade on Fox is retarded.

[pstall]

Cowher- took a long time but finally won. But I give as much credit to the FO as I do Cowher

Gruden- Inherited a incredible team. Little by little went down hill.

Frazier-?

Shanahan- Did squat after Elway retired.

[Fiz]

Imma just go on record that I think anyone thinking Cowher without Dick LeBeau is an upgrade on Fox is retarded.

out of the seven years Lebeau was in Cinci, they had a top ten defense every year but twice, and one year it was 11th.

[Fiz]

It aint gonna do you any good til January at least. If Fox were to be fired midseason, that would leave Davidson as HC and who knows who at OC.

yes but it would satisfy my blood lust and that will give me more joy than anything the panthers are going to accomplish on the field this season

[Epistaxis]

I realize it is kinda silly for me to chime in on theoretical coaching changes for a team that I don't follow "die hard" style but.....

If I was picking a new coach and GM for you guys I'd go with trying to pry Dungy out of the pulpit and Ted Sundquist as the GM.

Just a thought.

I really don't care for Gruden or Cowher, Shanny is ok.

Holmgren would be ok too.

[scpanther22]

i hope we promote from within if fox is gone..because so many new coaches come in here and make so many unnecssary moves like cuting good players just to bring in there own guys and i think this team has a good core.

[walt227]

7-9 or worse = new HC and GM. 8-8 or better without a playoff berth and it'll be 50/50. Winning season and a trip to the postseason and Fox isn't going anywhere.