Kudos to Kaepernick

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, firstdayfan said:

Gotta disagree completely with this.  That flag doesn't stand for military appreciation either, it stand for freedom, the exact freedom that Kaep is expressing.  The same rights given to him by the same constitution that 2nd Amendmenters scream about all the time.  When soldiers go over seas and fight for their country they are fighting to uphold and defend those freedoms.  One could make the argument (as many veterans have) that his protest actually highlights what the fight is all about, past, present and future.

The thing that I really dislike about this comment is the part about how the protest doesn't further his cause in any way...except that we are talking about it right now.  The validity and the idea behind the protest is part of the discussion, and the media has focused on it as well.  What is the point of protesting if not to alter people's perceptions and push for change.  IF his protest causes just one person to rethink their views then it has worked for all the right reasons (and we know that it has considering teammates have joined him.)

At first I felt like Jeremy about Kaep, that he was being stupid, but then after looking into it I realized how ignorant Jeremy and the rest of us were being.  And now I support his decision and others like him.

that flag doesn't have a written description of meaning.  It is different for everyone.

and yes, to many especially now that we have entered a world where we seem committed to having soliders in a never ending deployment.....to many that flag represents family and loved ones here and no longer with us.

Kap's biggest issue is he took something with vast symbolism and expected people to not take issue with what it means to them....and should only be looked in the context he wanted it looked at.   Flag/anthems are also not just sacred things for our country but is a universally defensive issue. 

So when Kapernick sits on 9/11....I'll disagree with it.  Not his cause, but his method.  Because he failed to fully understand what his method meant.  I expect many black, white, and purple Americans will to.  They have that right, because to them....he is disrespecting a lot of great people and great acts.   They have the right to be upset.   So if you want to endorse Kap.....cool.  But don't act like the people upset when people sit on 9/11 don't have the right to be upset.

[DaanngJohnny]

33 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

By not saluting the flag during the national anthem he disrespected the flag as well as the National Anthem which was written during the War of 1812 and supports the military which included both white and black soldiers at Fort McHenry.  If the protest was over Francis Scott Key who reportedly owned slaves it ignores he freed his slaves and fought against slavery most of his life.  

 http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/31/opinions/star-spangled-banner-criticisms-opinion-clague/

 "The Star-Spangled Banner" thus honors American military heroes, black and white, without regard to race. In this respect, "The Star-Spangled Banner" is not racist.

Francis Scott Key also did more than most to protect blacks and go after slavery.

Yes you can say that we arent the home of the free but that is the ideal which should be embraced and we enjoy freedoms here that billions elsewhere dont including the right to protest.  And the author of the article actually applauds Kaepernick for bringing up the subject largely because it so esoteric without protest no one would actually be doing what I am doing which is taking the time to look up the facts about the anthem.

 

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about.  

Francis Scott Key was about as racist as you can get.  He supported sending 'free blacks" (non-slaves) back to Africa.

Key also wrote a third verse to the 'anthem':

"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

In case you're having trouble understanding this, Key is basically referring to the blood of former slaves washing away the British.

Also, the flag has nothing to do with troops.  It represents a country, not a soldier.  It represents the people of this country, not the military.  It represents a person's freedoms, including the freedom to express one's feelings (a la Kaep)

If you think the song represented the black soldiers (aka SLAVES), you are quite mistaken.  People who are decrying Kaep for protesting are about as ignorant as is humanly possible.  

 

PS Kaep is a douche, and i really dislike him.  But he is not wrong in this case.  

 

[CRA]

9 minutes ago, DaanngJohnny said:

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about.  

Francis Scott Key was about as racist as you can get.  He supported sending 'free blacks" (non-slaves) back to Africa.

Key also wrote a third verse to the 'anthem':

"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

In case you're having trouble understanding this, Key is basically referring to the blood of former slaves washing away the British.

Also, the flag has nothing to do with troops.  It represents a country, not a soldier.  It represents the people of this country, not the military.  It represents a person's freedoms, including the freedom to express one's feelings (a la Kaep)

If you think the song represented the black soldiers (aka SLAVES), you are quite mistaken.  People who are decrying Kaep for protesting are about as ignorant as is humanly possible.  

 

PS Kaep is a douche, and i really dislike him.  But he is not wrong in this case.  

 

did  you actually read the article you replied to that 55 posted?

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, DaanngJohnny said:

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about.  

Francis Scott Key was about as racist as you can get.  He supported sending 'free blacks" (non-slaves) back to Africa.

Key also wrote a third verse to the 'anthem':

"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave."

In case you're having trouble understanding this, Key is basically referring to the blood of former slaves washing away the British.

Also, the flag has nothing to do with troops.  It represents a country, not a soldier.  It represents the people of this country, not the military.  It represents a person's freedoms, including the freedom to express one's feelings (a la Kaep)

If you think the song represented the black soldiers (aka SLAVES), you are quite mistaken.  People who are decrying Kaep for protesting are about as ignorant as is humanly possible.  

 

Read the article.  The expert on the topic said it wasnt racist by design or word.  Key grew up in a society which was heavily racist and slavery was considered the norm.  As such he did more than to further the rights of blacks than many in his day.  And that is the context that is always needed when talking about the past.  Thomas Jefferson had slaves, do we throw away the Declaration of Independence because many of the signers had slaves as well. 

And the black soldiers were freed slaves not captive slaves.  They fought of their own will and freedom to remain free from the British as did whites as well. Again read the article since it appears you are the uniformed one not me.

[DaanngJohnny]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

You didn't actually read the link did you 55 posted?

Yeah, I read the OPINION piece written in the OPINION section of CNN.  Great source to back up the 'facts'

[CRA]

Just now, DaanngJohnny said:

Yeah, I read the OPINION piece written in the OPINION section of CNN.  Great source to back up the 'facts'

ok, do you have facts to prove that viewpoint of verse 3 is wrong?

[panthers55]

14 minutes ago, CRA said:

that flag doesn't have a written description of meaning.  It is different for everyone.

and yes, to many especially now that we have entered a world we were seem committed to having soliders in a never ending deployment.....to many that flag represents family and loved ones here and no longer with us.

Kap's biggest issue is he took something with vast symbolism and expected people to not take issue with what it means to them....and should only be looked in the context he wanted it looked at.   Flag/anthems are also not just sacred things for our country but is a universally defensive issue. 

So when Kapernick sits on 9/11....I'll disagree with it.  Not his cause, but his method.  Because he failed to fully understand what his method meant.  I expect many black, white, and purples Americans will to.  They have that right, because to them....he is disrespecting a lot of great people and great acts.   They have the right to be upset.   So if you want to endorse Kap.....cool.  But don't act like the people upset when people sit on 9/11 don't have the right to be upset.

This.  

[panthers55]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

ok, do you have facts to prove that viewpoint of verse 3 is wrong?

I guess we can believe the music historian who is an expert on the Spar Spangled banner or we can believe the poster who has no credibility here.  The article clearly points out why verse three was dropped and it was not about black slaves but about all of us being slaves to the British if we lost the war whether we are white or black.  But like usual, people ignore the experts because somehow they know better because it fits their already held view of the world.

[DaanngJohnny]

Another opinion piece....y'all might find it interesting 

Do you hate Jackie Robinson too?

[Cookie Lyon]

57 minutes ago, KillaCamNewton said:

How? Cam is a football player, not a social activist, and he knows he's in a lose-lose situation because one side is gonna be pissed with whatever answer he gives. It's amazing how people call themselves "activists" but then expect high profile athletes to speak on behalf of them

I'm not asking Cam to be a social activist. Everyone is not built to be one, but what I am asking of Cam is that if you're going to talk about race issues, at least BE HONEST ABOUT THEM. He's so scared to talk about it now that he's just being completely dishonest about what's going on. 

 

[DaanngJohnny]

1 minute ago, Cookie Lyon said:

I'm not asking Cam to be a social activist. Everyone is not built to be one, but what I am asking of Cam is that if you're going to talk about race issues, at least BE HONEST ABOUT THEM. He's so scared to talk about it now that he's just being completely dishonest about what's going on. 

 

Exactly this. I posted something similar in the "kaep is really dumb" thread. 

[firstdayfan]

44 minutes ago, CRA said:

that flag doesn't have a written description of meaning.  It is different for everyone.

and yes, to many especially now that we have entered a world where we seem committed to having soliders in a never ending deployment.....to many that flag represents family and loved ones here and no longer with us.

Kap's biggest issue is he took something with vast symbolism and expected people to not take issue with what it means to them....and should only be looked in the context he wanted it looked at.   Flag/anthems are also not just sacred things for our country but is a universally defensive issue. 

So when Kapernick sits on 9/11....I'll disagree with it.  Not his cause, but his method.  Because he failed to fully understand what his method meant.  I expect many black, white, and purple Americans will to.  They have that right, because to them....he is disrespecting a lot of great people and great acts.   They have the right to be upset.   So if you want to endorse Kap.....cool.  But don't act like the people upset when people sit on 9/11 don't have the right to be upset.

Protest are uncomfortable just in their nature, they open eyes and minds about things that normal people don't really understand or even want to understand.  They will never please everyone and honestly that's not what the point is, he did it because he feels strongly about a cause.  It is a non violent protest that has caused a dialog on a topic that gets forgotten by the masses, regardless of who it offended.  I'm sure people were offended when Rosa Parks didn't just move to the back of the bus or when they saw people protesting the War in Vietnam but a protest isn't meant to please, its meant to change.

I served in the military so the anthem means something special to me, I've seen the flag draped around coffins being loaded off a plane.  You don't ever forget things like that, and honestly I think about it every time I stand for the anthem.  But let me ask you this, does it offend you when people don't take off their hats (it does me) and those people are just being either stupid, lazy, or both.  I can appreciate what Kaep is doing much more than when some people are openly disrespectful for no other reason than they forget or don't care.

I served to protect that freedom, home and abroad.  Him not standing doesn't make me angry, it makes me proud to live in a place where the freedoms in which this country were founded on aren't taken for granted.

 

[CRA]

26 minutes ago, DaanngJohnny said:

Another opinion piece....y'all might find it interesting 

Do you hate Jackie Robinson too?

Shaun King isn't my favorite but I'll read it.

Read it.

Big picture I hate comparing men in different eras/worlds.  I think King knows that flaw which is obvious when he pretty early on stated he didn't want to hear that.  I mean, Kap and Robinson don't compare.   On par w/ those trying to compare him and Ali.

but the thing I take most from the article, which IMO highlights an old Jackie Robinson reflecting on his experience....is the focus of his changed or possible change in thought at the end.  But the real question I would wonder going down that road, is if Robinson had the luxury of seeing where things went after he was long gone.....how would he have viewed it then.  When he made the statement, he obviously had no idea of what impact his actions would do going forward. 

so yeah, like most of Shaun King's stuff.  I don't really like what he tried to do.   But I know that Jackie Robinson story....

[KillaCamNewton]

14 minutes ago, Cookie Lyon said:

I'm not asking Cam to be a social activist. Everyone is not built to be one, but what I am asking of Cam is that if you're going to talk about race issues, at least BE HONEST ABOUT THEM. He's so scared to talk about it now that he's just being completely dishonest about what's going on. 

 

Except he doesn't want to talk about them. The media constantly baits him into these questions and the best way to avoid the unwanted backlash is just to stay on the fence. Otherwise you end up like Jerry Rice and get labeled as an Uncle Tom or not black enough because he doesnt have an extreme opinion like the BLM movement and other people expect him to have just because he happens to be black