We have traded for Andy Lee from the Browns

[Xavier]

Problem is, Gettleman is an oldschool guy, and I'm not sure how much he's into analytics.  Maybe Brandon Beane helps him with this aspect of things, but only to a very limited mistake.  If they were more invested in this, they would realize this about kickers and punters.  We're paying Gano 4 million dollars this year, while skimping on such important positions.  It's absurd.

Read this, instead of trying to figure out who has what alias or whatever.

 

"Meanwhile, kickers everywhere are being barred from free agency by their organizations, with no fewer than five teams essentially ensuring that they’ll keep their kickers in 2012 by sticking the franchise tag on them. The fact that they’re insistent upon paying a premium for the guys they had last season shows a depressing level of knowledge about the game among decision-makers in front offices.

The reality is that kickers just aren’t consistent from year to year. If kicking were a consistent skill, guys who are scary accurate in one season would also be at the top of the leaderboards the following season. Research has shown that not to be the case. Here’s a simple chart we put together, consisting of every kicker since 1999 who attempted 20 field goals or more in each of two consecutive seasons. You’re about to realize just how maddeningly inconsistent placekickers are.

Look at that chart again. That’s crazy. If you take the league’s most accurate kickers in a given season and compare them to the NFL’s least accurate ones, the least accurate kickers are better on field goals in the subsequent season. Of those 41 kickers who had seasons where they converted 89 percent of their kicks or more, just four of them repeated the feat in the following year. The reality is that kickers don’t have a big enough sample size in a given season to exhibit a true level of ability; think about how accurate or inaccurate a quarterback can be in 30 pass attempts, or how a .300 hitter can go 2-for-33 and nobody blinks an eye. That’s a full season for a kicker. You’re better off using a kicker’s performance over three or four seasons to judge his true level of ability.

And yet, NFL teams went out and locked up the league’s most accurate kickers on Monday. Connor Barth (92.9 percent), Josh Scobee (92.0 percent), and Mike Nugent (86.8 percent) were all guaranteed salaries in excess of $2 million despite the fact that there’s virtually no evidence suggesting that they’ll repeat that level of performance next year. While Scobee was at least fifth in touchback percentage on kickoffs, Nugent was 19th and Barth doesn’t even kick off for his team

These signings are another reminder of just how spectacularly risk-averse NFL teams are. Teams are shelling out significant money to exactly the sorts of players who are easiest to replace, just because they’re worried about the unknown. There’s no guarantees that any of these deals will work out and significant evidence that they’re likely to fail. "

[LinvilleGorge]

We just went 15-1 and made a run to the Super Bowl after years of mediocrity at best and some people want to bash our front office? 

Jesus. I understand not agreeing with every decision and move. I don't agree with every decision and move. But, if you truly think our front office has done a terrible job then you're just flat out dumb and thats all there is to it. 

[Xavier]

I don't know who CPantherKing is fwiw.  If you guys paid more attention to detail, it would be obvious English is my (fourth) language, and I don't speak it very well.  He seems to be an American based on style.

So enough about that, there's football arguments to be made.  Like an explanation for why Gettleman is allocating 7 million to kickers and punters when the research shows how fungible these positions are.

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, CPantherKing said:

I have never stated Hurney has not missed on picks. I have stated Hurney gave the Panthers their current foundation that the Panthers succeeded with in 2013 and 2015. I have stated the facts of Hurney's players being the most accomplished in the league currently, and they continue to rise to the top. There will be a day when Hurney will be supplanted, and hopefully it will be Gettleman. However, the way Gettleman uses the draft that is not a likely possibility.

Hurney maximized the draft, which allowed him more room for error. Gettleman minimizes the draft, which means he has little to no error. A GM who chooses 10 players a year in the draft can miss on half of them and still field a very strong team. A GM who chooses 5 players a year in the draft can not miss a single one to stay even with the other GM.

Gettleman leaves himself no room for error. So, those errors are magnified when he messes up in the off season on a P, OT, RB, CB, S, WR, TE, or DE and has to scramble in the season to correct it by paying more and leveraging the future. Hurney made his errors over 11 seasons while allowing himself room for error. Gettleman is currently racking up the errors at a greater pace with no room for error while being given a substantial crutch from Hurney to lean on while he makes those errors.

Hurney also built the foundation for 2 eras of Panthers football. Once Gettleman finished widdling away at that foundation, he will be given his chance to build a foundation. He should have no problem as he just needs to concentrate on developing players that can step in to replace Cam, Luke, TD, Kalil, Stewart, Olsen, Tolbert, and CJ.

Gettleman has found Star, KK, and Trai. He has also had 4 off season to find players to step in for the key players when they go down. In those 4 years, he has been unable to find a C, QB, RB, OT, FB, DE, MLB, or CB to fill in for key players with little to no drop off. The WR position is still up in the air (as it has been for 3 off seasons now), but there is definite potential with KB and Funchess. If they fail to realize their potential and catch more than 60% of their targets, that will be a huge blow for the future. The Panthers have always had strong WRs until Gettleman.

Just own Gettleman's failures and stop crediting him with Hurney's success. All you do is deflect to the mistakes Hurney made over 11 years.

Even accepting the ridiculous premise you put forth, Hurney missed on way more than half his picks.

Having ten picks doesn't help you if you miss on nine of them.

Consider for a moment that your whole argument is so pathetic you had to invent a fake poster to agree with you.

You must have one really sad existence, dude.

[ctrcat]

16 minutes ago, Xavier said:

For what it's worth, Gano is overpaid as well ($3.8 mil cap hit).  Bill Barnwell did a good analysis of how fungible field goal kickers are, showing the variability of their field goal average from year to year to be almost completely random and due to chance, with the possible exception of two guys.  It seems counterintuitive to things like, "the eye test", and conventional wisdom, but the analytics bears it out pretty clearly.

Gettleman places way too much of a premium on kickers for whatever reason, and it's a mistake.  Gano and Lee are as likely to be average as they are to excel, and we're dedicating 7 million dollars in cap room for them.  That kind of money can get you an elite tackle so you don't have to overcompensate with max protect schemes all season.

Here, you might want to read this about how irrational some of these deals for kickers are. 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/why-are-nfl-teams-afraid-of-the-dark/

Olindo Mare

[PantherWake]

3 minutes ago, Xavier said:

I don't know who CPantherKing is fwiw.  If you guys paid more attention to detail, it would be obvious English is my (fourth) language, and I don't speak it very well.  He seems to be an American based on style.

So enough about that, there's football arguments to be made.  Like an explanation for why Gettleman is allocating 7 million to kickers and punters when the research shows how fungible these positions are.

 

 

Yeah i dont like it but we also desperately needed a punter and he's one of the best and signed through 2018

[ClawOn]

The punter situation is dire. Let's freak out. The punter situation is solved. Let's freak out. 

[Seltzer]

People are acting like we traded 2 first rounders for Andy Lee.

Nortman has not been good the last 2 years, and Gettleman wasn't going to pay him what he thought he was worth. No harm, no foul.

We took a look at a few punters, but then this opportunity came up to get Lee. Otherwise, I think Gettleman would have looked at a guy that is going to be cut this week.

Could Redfern been the guy? Maybe, but Gettleman deemed it not worth the risk.

Cleveland is rebuilding (again) and/or Moneyballing it and thinks it can work.

Who cares? We got a proven punter under contract for the next 3 seasons for a 4th rounder 2 years from now.

All in all, not a bad deal. Don't know how anyone could objectively say otherwise.

[SIGCHI222]

4 minutes ago, Xavier said:

I don't know who CPantherKing is fwiw.  If you guys paid more attention to detail, it would be obvious English is my (fourth) language, and I don't speak it very well.  He seems to be an American based on style.

So enough about that, there's football arguments to be made.  Like an explanation for why Gettleman is allocating 7 million to kickers and punters when the research shows how fungible these positions are.

 

 

أنت غبية. هل تتكلم

 

[LinvilleGorge]

Who are these elite tackles that are available for $7M?

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, Xavier said:

I don't know who CPantherKing is fwiw.  If you guys paid more attention to detail, it would be obvious English is my (fourth) language, and I don't speak it very well.  He seems to be an American based on style.

So enough about that, there's football arguments to be made.  Like an explanation for why Gettleman is allocating 7 million to kickers and punters when the research shows how fungible these positions are.

This would be a good time to mention again that the moderators here tend to ban people for creating alternate accounts.

[davos]

It seems something sparked a lively debate in a punter thread lol. Maintaining good field position is huge these days, our guys were utter sh*t, and we basically swapped a 4th for a 7th.  

[TheSpecialJuan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

How's he do on the long distance shots?

Magnificently

[Floppin]

Using average starting field position isn't the best or most accurate way to judge a punters ability. This is especially true when done so in a vacuum. You can't argue that Lee's 1 and 2 yard drop in average starting field position is indicative of him suddenly starting to out kick his coverage without looking at it in context. These two years he was punting for the browns, who have been almost dead last both years in average yards per drive. This means that Lee was consistently having to punt from further back on the field than he had previously. Of fuging course his average field position would drop. If you then realize that despite this his average was still better than anything we've had in like a decade, you should realize your argument is total crap.