We have traded for Andy Lee from the Browns

[Lumps]

49 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Hurney "chose" to draft Jimmy Clausen, Amini Silatolu (over Corey Glenn, mind you), Dwayne Jarrett, Eric Shelton, Sione Fua, Joe Adams, Charles Godfrey (whom he re-upped to a cap-eating contract),  Brandon Hogan, Bruce Nelson, Eric Norwood, traded away a first round pick for Everette Brown and - everyone's favorite - traded away the top pick of the second round for Armanti Edwards.

All of this was in addition to blowing our salary cap to hell re-signing the core players of a mediocre (at best) team.

Care to "own" that?

This board defended Hurney until the very end. Also, a majority of the huddle defended his late picks like Armanti and Brown. Jarrett for years.

I mean it's a fan based site and posters will defend the team to borderline idiocy. Very little objective thinking here.

 

My point is the huddle doesn't ever really know wtf is going on.

[tiger7_88]

2 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

You did not take into account that Klein will not bring a compensatory pick since he does not get the required playing time necessary to qualify his value high enough to take one of the 32 comp picks. They do not just hand comp picks out. They only go to the 32 top producing free agents who were primary producers for their previous team.

Gettleman has not played the comp pick system well for the past 4 off seasons. What makes you think he has figured it out? All he wants is to draft 5 players per season. The GMs that win in the off season leverage the comp picks for 9+ picks in the draft each season.

They don't just take playing time into consideration.

They also take contract value into consideration.  And if somebody signs Klein to be a starter for them, he'll be signing for starting LB pay, not back-up LB pay.  And there are a NUMBER of teams out there right now who would love the thought of having A.J. Klein as a starting LB for them.

[panthers1234]

Its not that bad of a trade. Its a 2018 4th rounder which basically has a value of a 5th rounder in 2017 and on top of that your probably going to draft a punter using a 5-7th round pick too. You get one of the best punters in the league for what is essentially a 5th round value in 2017. He fills a huge hole since all the other options aren't very good. 

[Xavier]

Even we're missing something, and Gettleman saw something in Andy Lee indicative he could regain his 2011 form, why pay a 4th rounder for him?  That's just indicative of terrible negotiating skills, and makes me fearful about Gettleman getting fleeced in future trades.  Did he just cede to their demands immediately as soon as they offered a 7th in response?

The Browns are rebuilding, led by analytics geeks now, having a firesale, and have no use for a 34 year old punter on a huge contract.

They got a 5th round pick for Mingo, a guy who was a #6 overall pick for them and plays defensive end.  They're dangling Josh Gordon.  I think it's likely they would have cut Andy Lee, but if not, we could have gotten him for a 7th rounder if we held out a bit.  The same 7th rounder they paid for the guy last year.

This just makes no sense and makes me question if Gettleman got drunk tbh.  Scifres gets hurt and Gett panics big time, when there's still weeks until we play our first game.

 

[CPantherKing]

A note for the Bully Squad of Gettleman lovers...

I have never had an alt and will never have an alt. Just because they disagree with you does not make them CPK. I have put time in to developing my reputation and would like to own it. Do not give credit for my views to any other poster. They are not me.

... and this disaster of a punter situation is just getting worse. What will Gettleman do when he sees Lee out punt his coverage and refuse to tackle in a game? Throwing away draft picks is worse than having to juggle the salary cap.

Thank you.

[Castavar]

We need to win now, and there was no way in hell we were going to win with the punters we had. Special teams play a HUGE role in a win or loss. We get one of (if not the) best punter for a 2018 4th rounder. Which really, it would take an extra 2 years (in all likelihood) for that 4th rounder to become anything, and even that is not a given. So people are essentially freaking out about an unknown 4 year prospect who MIGHT become decent (or a backup) instead of enjoying that we now are going to be consistently pinning teams down in horrible situations to where our defense can now eat.

[Kevin Greene]

2 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

 What will Gettleman do when he sees Lee out punt his coverage and refuse to tackle in a game?

[Major wRecktum]

3 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

 I have put time in to developing my reputation and would like to own it. Do not give credit for my views to any other poster. They are not me.

...

This reputation you speak of....

[Xavier]

1 minute ago, Castavar said:

We need to win now, and there was no way in hell we were going to win with the punters we had. Special teams play a HUGE role in a win or loss. We get one of (if not the) best punter for a 2018 4th rounder. Which really, it would take an extra 2 years (in all likelihood) for that 4th rounder to become anything, and even that is not a given. So people are essentially freaking out about an unknown 4 year prospect who MIGHT become decent (or a backup) instead of enjoying that we now are going to be consistently pinning teams down in horrible situations to where our defense can now eat.

 

I think it's just the realization with some of us that Gettleman is in fact, a very flawed general manager.  Like with the Josh Norman thing, maybe we could convince ourselves he was just a scheme guy, or had some personality flaw.  I was holding out hope Gettleman really did have some kind of master plan, but with every new piece of evidence to the contrary, it makes you rethink prior assumptions and question a lot of his moves.  This move is so bizarre it really makes you think.

He's a good draft/scout is what I've concluded when examining all the evidence.  Lot more to being a general manager in terms of negotiation, temperament, social sills, than just being a good scout.  He's lucky he inherited a bunch of Hall of Famers and the best QB in the NFL, and could get by with surrounding them with complementary pieces, even with a very flawed roster.

I wouldn't hire the guy to build a team that wasn't already stacked with superstars though.

[jayflip]

I'll bite. 

Bully Squad? When you consistently say things like a butt hurt dweeb, you will be consistently treated like a butt hurt dweeb. 

I really don't want to resort to personal attacks, so I'll say I'm sorry for calling you a butt hurt dweeb. 

We got a great punter. We paid a (relatively) steep price. CPKX spun this, as he always does, into a Gettledouche tirade of butt hurt, dweeby responses. 

Hugs & Kisses,

jayflip. 

[CPantherKing]

Just now, Castavar said:

We need to win now, and there was no way in hell we were going to win with the punters we had.

Seriously?

We need to win now? Then why the rookie CBs? Why move Coleman to SS? Why did the Panthers not go after a DE in free agency? Why are we still watching Remmers and Oher start? Why do we have no significant vet presences at WR?

What was all the talk about not making moves for a win now window and making moves for the future?

Win now would have been leaving the tag on Norman, signing a vet WR who can catch to play opposite KB and Funch, drafting DEs in the first and second round instead of a DT and CB, finding a pass rusher off the edge, and acquiring a vet to play SS. Might even throw in a TE to beat out Dickson.

This front office has been dragging its feet on the win now philosophy. They go with the lean on the key players and hope we win philosophy. If they decided to start the win now philosophy due to a punter, then the front office is even worse than I knew them to be.

[Xavier]

2 minutes ago, jayflip said:

I'll bite. 

Bully Squad? When you consistently say things like a butt hurt dweeb, you will be consistently treated like a butt hurt dweeb. 

I really don't want to resort to personal attacks, so I'll say I'm sorry for calling you a butt hurt dweeb. 

We got a great punter. We paid a (relatively) steep price. CPKX spun this, as he always does, into a Gettledouche tirade of butt hurt, dweeby responses. 

Hugs & Kisses,

jayflip. 

There's a lot of projection and sublimated energy going on here.

The people who have been criticizing Gettleman have stuck to strictly arguments centered on transactions and football.  We don't seem to be focused on the 'personality' or 'reputation' of the people making the counterfactuals. 

But the response to this, seems largely made up of trying to analyze which personality is behind which name, assumptions regarding the moral character of the people behind the arguments, etc.  Like, who cares?  We're arguing football here, and it's irrelevant who the people making the arguments are.

The ones that seem to be full of emotion, anger, and accusation seem to be the ones who feel a sense of chaos and instability when their father figure (David Gettleman) is perceived to be under attack. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

David Newton ESPN Staff Writer 

New Panthers punter Andy Lee, acquired in a trade with Cleveland, has a 2016 salary cap figure of $2,833,000. His current deal runs through 2018.

[Xavier]

For what it's worth, Gano is overpaid as well ($3.8 mil cap hit).  Bill Barnwell did a good analysis of how fungible field goal kickers are, showing the variability of their field goal average from year to year to be almost completely random and due to chance, with the possible exception of two guys.  It seems counterintuitive to things like, "the eye test", and conventional wisdom, but the analytics bears it out pretty clearly.

Gettleman places way too much of a premium on kickers for whatever reason, and it's a mistake.  Gano and Lee are as likely to be average as they are to excel, and we're dedicating 7 million dollars in cap room for them.  That kind of money can get you an elite tackle so you don't have to overcompensate with max protect schemes all season.

Here, you might want to read this about how irrational some of these deals for kickers are. 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/why-are-nfl-teams-afraid-of-the-dark/