Kaepernick makes statement during National Anthem

[TheRed]

7 minutes ago, Floppin said:

You know why he got blasted. He made a statement that his unfair criticisms weren't racially based and that "we are beyond that". I love Cam, and despise Colin, but you're letting your own personal football biases compromise your normal social ethics position. Personally it's cringe worthy watching you shift into an argument strategy very similar to ones you usually lambast incessantly in the TB.

You think Cam's perception suddenly changed overnight? He was in a lose/lose situation no matter what his answer was.

Read the whole thread before making assumptions that this is some silly petty football rivalry beef please. I was one of the few here calling out ignorance like when our own fans were literally labeling Kaepernick a "thug".

It's interesting that no one seems to be questioning the timing of all this. Entering a season with a lingering question mark on his career, Colin suddenly decides he is a political activist. Where was this "man of the people" persona when he was one of the faces of the league, and at the height of his popularity? I certainly didn't hear a peep out of him about social issues when he was kissing his pecs in the end zone. Did you?

[Floppin]

Just now, TheRed said:

You think Cam's perception suddenly changed overnight? He was in a lose/lose situation no matter what his answer was.

Read the whole thread before making assumptions that this is some silly petty football rivalry beef please. I was one of the few here calling out ignorance like when our own fans were literally labeling Kaepernick a "thug".

It's interesting that no one seems to be questioning the timing of all this. Entering a season with a lingering question mark on his career, Colin suddenly decides he is a political activist. Where was this "man of the people" persona when he was one of the faces of the league, and at the height of his popularity? I certainly didn't hear a peep out of him about social issues when he was kissing his pecs in the end zone. Did you?

I have read the whole thread, it's why I commented. And he did this when he was a starter as well. You just didn't hear about it or chose to ignore it. Again, ad hominem is stupid and ignores the issue.

If Cam was truly in a lose lose then you could argue that he made an even poorer or selfish choice by going the route he did. I dont, of course, as not everyone is a social activist or even shares the same social perspective so I can't actually fault Cam for not being outwardly vocal, I just see why he got blasted.

I can still hate Colin and yet separate that from the issue at hand.

[TheRed]

6 minutes ago, Floppin said:

I have read the whole thread, it's why I commented. And he did this when he was a starter as well. You just didn't hear about it or chose to ignore it. Again, ad hominem is stupid and ignores the issue.

If Cam was truly in a lose lose then you could argue that he made an even poorer or selfish choice by going the route he did. I dont, of course, as not everyone is a social activist or even shares the same social perspective so I can't actually fault Cam for not being outwardly vocal, I just see why he got blasted.

I can still hate Colin and yet separate that from the issue at hand.

Look. If you want to talk, talk. Enough with the whining about ad hominem.

Anyways. Newton actually gives back in numerous ways, much moreso than most on this message board who get drunk and scream obscenities for fun. Calling him a sell out does nothing to end racism. In fact, it digs the whole deeper.

The whole reason I responded to this thread in the first place was not about the national anthem, or Cam, or even Kaepernick himself. It was about calling the act of one literally sitting on his ass "courageous". That's just laughable, and pathetic.

[Floppin]

7 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Look. If you want to talk, talk. Enough with the whining about ad hominem.

Anyways. Newton actually gives back in numerous ways, much moreso than most on this message board who get drunk and scream obscenities for fun. Calling him a sell out does nothing to end racism. In fact, it digs the whole deeper.

The whole reason I responded to this thread in the first place was not about the national anthem, or Cam, or even Kaepernick himself. It was about calling the act of one literally sitting on his ass "courageous". That's just laughable, and pathetic.

I'm aware of what Cam does. He's an amazing person in almost every facet of life and provides immense value to both his home town of Atlanta and his adopted home of Charlotte as well as other areas. I never said otherwise.

While Colin's "sitting on his ass" may not be courageous, it's certainly respectable and nondeserving of condemnation, especially considering he's done it a few times over a few years always for the same reason.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, Floppin said:

I'm aware of what Cam does. He's an amazing person in almost every facet of life and provides immense value to both his home town of Atlanta and his adopted home of Charlotte as well as other areas. I never said otherwise.

While Colin's "sitting on his ass" may not be courageous, it's certainly respectable and nondeserving of condemnation, especially considering he's done it a few times over a few years always for the same reason.

Yeah, but look at the difference in perception.

Newton does all kinds of good deeds, and charitable work in his community, much of it we don't hear about, and probably wouldn't hear about if not for social media. He doesn't try to turn it into a spectacle about himself. But his own fans label him a sell out.

Colin on the other hand, intentionally or not, is making this a spectacle about himself. If he is serious about actually making a difference, he could make donations to literally any of the numerous families torn apart by senseless tragedy over the years. Will he, or will he continue to merely sit down, hoping the world will simply, and magically change on it's own?

[Floppin]

1 minute ago, TheRed said:

Yeah, but look at the difference in perception.

Newton does all kinds of good deeds, and charitable work in his community, much of it we don't hear about, and probably wouldn't hear about if not for social media. He doesn't try to turn it into a spectacle about himself. But his own fans label him a sell out.

Colin on the other hand, intentionally or not, is making this a spectacle about himself. If he is serious about actually making a difference, he could make donations to literally any of the numerous families torn apart by senseless tragedy over the years. Will he, or will he continue to merely sit down, hoping the world will simply, and magically change on it's own?

He donates time and money, many examples have already been linked in this thread. He didn't announce he was going to sit, or have a press conference after. He was directly asked why he had after having done so previously in the past. You're using literally the same argument you shame people for using consistently in the TB. "Blah blah these protesters are doing nothing to change anything and are just selfish blah blah"

Cam does what he does and is awesome for it. Colin does what he does and is awesome for it, I just hate his projected personality.

[TheRed]

13 minutes ago, Floppin said:

He donates time and money, many examples have already been linked in this thread. He didn't announce he was going to sit, or have a press conference after. He was directly asked why he had after having done so previously in the past. You're using literally the same argument you shame people for using consistently in the TB. "Blah blah these protesters are doing nothing to change anything and are just selfish blah blah"

Cam does what he does and is awesome for it. Colin does what he does and is awesome for it, I just hate his projected personality.

Look, pick what you want to discuss. Either you want to measure dicks over some disagreement in the tinderbox who knows how long ago, or you want to talk about this. Which is it?

Comparing the average citizen who doesn't just so happen to have millions in the bank, and notoriety getting up off their ass, and actually taking to the streets to peacefully protest injustices, to a millionaire athlete literally just sitting down during a game he is paid millions to play does not compute whatsoever.

I have no issue with Colin. I do have an issue with people, especially our own fans, praising him yet basically calling Cam Uncle Ruckus in the flesh. It's bullshit.

[Growl]

so it looks like that whole "the players love it!" thing has gone up in glorious smoldering flame

[Floppin]

9 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Look, pick what you want to discuss. Either you want to measure dicks over some disagreement in the tinderbox who knows how long ago, or you want to talk about this. Which is it?

Comparing the average citizen who doesn't just so happen to have millions in the bank, and notoriety getting up off their ass, and actually taking to the streets to peacefully protest injustices, to a millionaire athlete literally just sitting down during a game he is paid millions to play does not compute whatsoever.

I have no issue with Colin. I do have an issue with people, especially our own fans, praising him yet basically calling Cam Uncle Ruckus in the flesh. It's bullshit.

Do you ever pay attention to posting history? We are consistently on the same side of race discussions, so no this isn't because of some old disagreement and I honestly don't even know why you would assume so. I was just hoping for you to realize that for whatever reason you are arguing against yourself here, and it's disconcerting.

My whole point was that it was disappointing to see you shaming Colin for taking the position he's chosen to take. Of course now you've shifted to a position of blasting people who disparage Cam for not taking a similar position. I'm fine with that, Cam doesn't deserve to be shamed. So long as you actually keep to that argument I have no problem.

[TheRed]

11 minutes ago, Floppin said:

Do you ever pay attention to posting history? We are consistently on the same side of race discussions, so no this isn't because of some old disagreement and I honestly don't even know why you would assume so. I was just hoping for you to realize that for whatever reason you are arguing against yourself here, and it's disconcerting.

My whole point was that it was disappointing to see you shaming Colin for taking the position he's chosen to take. Of course now you've shifted to a position of blasting people who disparage Cam for not taking a similar position. I'm fine with that, Cam doesn't deserve to be shamed. So long as you actually keep to that argument I have no problem.

I never shamed Kaepernick for wanting to see change, and equality in the country. Unless you consider questioning the way he is going about this, and the timing of all this publicity for him considering the current state of his NFL career to be "shaming" him. But that would pretty flimsy.

[Floppin]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I never shamed Kaepernick for wanting to see change, and equality in the country. Unless you consider questioning the way he is going about this, and the timing of all this publicity for him considering the current state of his NFL career to be "shaming" him. But that would pretty flimsy.

He's done it during a preseason game each year. Even while he was a starter. You questioning his motives stems more from a lack of perspective on him doing it previously than any actual reality. Colin did not create the current media frenzy, the media did. He did this last year and the year before.

Regardless, I'm of the mind that no one should be mocked for taking any type of stance against legitimate social issues, no matter how inconsequential they may appear.

 

[TheRed]

7 minutes ago, Floppin said:

He's done it during a preseason game each year. Even while he was a starter. You questioning his motives stems more from a lack of perspective on him doing it previously than any actual reality. Colin did not create the current media frenzy, the media did. He did this last year and the year before.

Regardless, I'm of the mind that no one should be mocked for taking any type of stance against legitimate social issues, no matter how inconsequential they may appear.

 

Can you substantiate that? Alex Boone's recent comments make it sound like this never happened while he was there for 5 seasons. Either he is lying, or some facts are mixed up.

Regardless, if Colin truly wants to make a difference, he will at the very least attempt to use some of his wealth to assist families affected by this endless gun violence. If he doesn't, that's on him. No amount of sitting down will change that.

[Kakarot]

3 hours ago, TheRed said:

Yo, @Kakarot, why is this guy revered, but Newton is a sell out?

I didn't call Cam a sell out, though. I did say what he said could be perceived as being a sell out move, but I even took that back towards the end of that thread, acknowledging all the things Cam has done for the community. Cam is still receiving backlash for his comments, though.

I don't think you know Kaepernick well enough to question his motives on why he's doing this. Colin has stated he's been doing this, and both he and his gf are both well known BLM activist who have been assisting the Bay Area communities. He's also been making his stance known through Twitter for quite sometime.

[TheRed]

1 hour ago, Kakarot said:

I didn't call Cam a sell out, though. I did say what he said could be perceived as being a sell out move, but I even took that back towards the end of that thread, acknowledging all the things Cam has done for the community. Cam is still receiving backlash for his comments, though.

I don't think you know Kaepernick well enough to question his motives on why he's doing this. Colin has stated he's been doing this, and both he and his gf are both well known BLM activist who have been assisting the Bay Area communities. He's also been making his stance known through Twitter for quite sometime.

Not trying to call you out here. Frankly I often find myself agreeing with you the majority of the time, Cookie Lyon too. But that thread got out of hand in general. The mindset revolving around the backlash Newton received was reminiscent of the "cornball brother" type remarks about Robert Griffin. We can't fight intolerance, and divisiveness with more intolerance, and divisiveness. It's been tried over, and over, and it hasn't worked yet, that's for sure.

Like I told another poster, I have nothing against Colin. I don't care he did the Superman dance, and all that. I was disgusted when our own fans flooded a thread about him here with "thug" remarks considering what we went through with our own quarterback regarding such ugly stereotypes, and blatant code words.

That being said, if he is serious about this, he could create a charitable foundation focused on assisting families affected by gun violence, and begin attempting to direct attention to that instead of riling up the mouth breathers which only digs this vicious cycle even deeper.