Fox can't win without Seifert's picks

[jpo287]

In Foxes first four years with the Panthers, they had 2 winning seasons, went to 7 playoff games, 2 NFC Champinship games and a Superbowl. In the last 4 years (counting this season as the 4th), they will have had just 1 winning season and only 1 playoff appearance. The difference--players.

When Fox arrived, he had Mike Rucker, Kris Jenkins, Mark Fields, Brentson Buckner, Dan Morgan, Mike Minter, Steve Smith, Mushin Muhammed, Brad Hoover, John Kasay, Todd Sauerbrun (love him or hate him he could kick the ball) and Nick Goings. With those players, Fox lead the Panthers to some of their best seasons ever. But as those players have slowly left, so have the wins.

Sorry, but the team I watched on Sunday didn't play with near the intensity or swagger of Fox's early years. My question is, is this Fox's fault, Hurney's fault or a combination of the two. Because while there are some decent players on the current roster, it can't compare to the team/players he inherited.

And finally, while I do like Fox, I can't help but think the Panthers have been heading in the wrong direction for the past 4 years and I see nothing that would lead me to believe that he can turn things around-at least not with the players he currently has.

[Sam Mills Fan]

As much as I hate Fox, let's not lose our minds by starting to praise George Seifert.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

Our defense as a whole hasn't played with any sort of intensity since 2005.

I love the offensive players we have now, but man do I miss the days when Carolina was one of the league's best, hardest-hitting defenses.

[panthers55]

In Foxes first four years with the Panthers, they had 2 winning seasons, went to 7 playoff games, 2 NFC Champinship games and a Superbowl. In the last 4 years (counting this season as the 4th), they will have had just 1 winning season and only 1 playoff appearance. The difference--players.

When Fox arrived, he had Mike Rucker, Kris Jenkins, Mark Fields, Brentson Buckner, Dan Morgan, Mike Minter, Steve Smith, Mushin Muhammed, Brad Hoover, John Kasay, Todd Sauerbrun (love him or hate him he could kick the ball) and Nick Goings. With those players, Fox lead the Panthers to some of their best seasons ever. But as those players have slowly left, so have the wins.

Sorry, but the team I watched on Sunday didn't play with near the intensity or swagger of Fox's early years. My question is, is this Fox's fault, Hurney's fault or a combination of the two. Because while there are some decent players on the current roster, it can't compare to the team Seifert built.

And finally, while I do like Fox, I can't help but think the Panthers have been heading in the wrong direction for the past 4 years and I see nothing that would lead me to believe that he can turn things around-at least not with the players he currently has.

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And what was Seifert's record with all there great signings? 1-15

Did Seifert every have a winning season.

Apparently it takes more than talent.

[Jase]

That last siefert team was the best 1-15 team to ever take the field.

[jpo287]

As much as I hate Fox, let's not lose our minds by starting to praise George Seifert.

I wasn't praising Seifert the coach. I was just pointing out how well he filled the roster compared to what Fox/Hurney have done.

He certainly wasn't perfect (Weinke), but defensively, his picks were the core of our defense for years and Smith is and has been or entire offense up until last year.

[Peppers90 NC]

Sorry, but the team I watched on Sunday didn't play with near the intensity or swagger of Fox's early years. My question is, is this Fox's fault, Hurney's fault or a combination of the two. Because while there are some decent players on the current roster, it can't compare to the team Seifert built.

How could we ever match that incredible 1-15 Seifert team? BTW Seifert had nothing to do with Kasay or Goings. You could have posted this in another similar more original, more ragged-out, fire Fox, Hurney sucks thread. How did we ever lose a game with Seifert's golden arm talent in Jeff Lewis?

[jpo287]

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And what was Seifert's record with all there great signings? 1-15

Did Seifert every have a winning season.

Apparently it takes more than talent.

The post isn;t about Seifert as a coach. it is about fox's ability to coach/win without the talent Seifert provided. As those players ahve left, who have they been replaced with and is that Fox's or Hurney's fault.

[SMACKDAB]

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And what was Seifert's record with all there great signings? 1-15

Did Seifert every have a winning season.

Apparently it takes more than talent.

I have one word................. RINGS! He has......we don't.

We also paid him 10 million to just leave.....

[Peppers90 NC]

jpo, you deserve to have to take the cover you need to take after this brilliant idea of a thread

[Sam Mills Fan]

1999 draft

Chris Terry

Mike Rucker

Hannibal Navies

Robert Daniel

Tony Booth

2000 draft

Rashard Anderson

Deon Grant

Leander Jordan

Alvin McKinley

Gillis Wilson

Jeno James

Lester Towns

Um, other than Rucker, I'm not seeing any great players from those two drafts. We had the awesome 2001 draft, so you can praise Seifert's '01 draft but not his drafting ability overall.

[Lakelover]

That last siefert team was the best 1-15 team to ever take the field.

Hey....that team had one win after two games.

[jpo287]

This post is not about Seifert! It is about Fox's first four years vs. his last four years. It is about how the Panthers have progressively got worse as the players THAT WERE ALREADY HERE when he arrived have left. Look at the names. Can anyone honestly say they have been replaced with comparable players. Is that Fox's fault or Hurneys? it's a simple question.

[jpo287]

1999 draft

Chris Terry

Mike Rucker

Hannibal Navies

Robert Daniel

Tony Booth

2000 draft

Rashard Anderson

Deon Grant

Leander Jordan

Alvin McKinley

Gillis Wilson

Jeno James

Lester Towns

Um, other than Rucker, I'm not seeing any great players from those two drafts. We had the awesome 2001 draft, so you can praise Seifert's '01 draft but not his drafting ability overall.

You, like everyone who has read the post have missed the point. Put simply, as the players Fox inherited when he took the job have been replaced with his and Hurney's picks, the team has got worse. Who's fault is it or is it simply poor coaching.