Cam Newton GQ Article "It's not racism we're beyond that." regarding extra scrutiny because he's black.

[PhillyB]

1 minute ago, Guild said:

I agree with your overall message but all people are not on a level playing field biologically or cognitively.  Some people are inherently more gifted in quantifiable ways than others and this is an easily demonstrable phenomenon which transcends socioeconomic status, race, and any other social aspect one might attribute it to.  Some people are Anansi and others are Python.  Also I disagree it is simply black and white as you assert there are nuances and layers to this that are not easily discussed or thought about.

yeah but controlling for phenotypic population groups doesn't reveal a meaningful cluster of disparate cognitive levels. some people are born smarter than others, but there is no correlation between smart people and race, which was the racist scientific assertion of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries (and is perpetuated today in the form of pseudoscience like the work of charles murray.)

and since race is a social construct without biological meaning there's really no point in controlling for it outside of social analysis anyway

[Guild]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Misquote please delete.

[PhillyB]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

No one is saying racism is not a terrible thing but this whole notion that blacks can't be racist because they have experienced it themselves is a bigger issue than many like you think. At least some of the mistrust and hate toward whites and the system is a deep seeded view that white people can't be trusted and down deep they are all racist and prejudiced. Systematic racism on both sides just divides us and makes us look for differences instead of heals us looking for common ground.

not the point. how many white people's lives are measurably affected by the collective power of black racism?

how many black peoples' lives are measurably affected by the collective power of white racism?

there's a huge disparity between the two and the point is it looks really selfish and privileged to surface the tiny little sliver of racism white people face on a daily basis whenever a black person brings up what they have to face to succeed in society. in fact one might even call it ...a race card?

[Guild]

1 minute ago, PhillyB said:

yeah but controlling for phenotypic population groups doesn't reveal a meaningful cluster of disparate cognitive levels. some people are born smarter than others, but there is no correlation between smart people and race, which was the racist scientific assertion of the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries (and is perpetuated today in the form of pseudoscience like the work of charles murray.)

and since race is a social construct without biological meaning there's really no point in controlling for it outside of social analysis anyway

That is the part I 100% agree with you on :)

[Guild]

2 minutes ago, Panthers1990 said:

Black people do not systematically oppress white people. White people systematically oppress black people. THAT is racism. So no, black people can NEVER be racist. They can be prejudice in response to racism, but never racist. They dont have that kind of power over white people. Nice try on trying to twist it.

That depends on what definition of the term racism you are using. Prejudice due to skin color is also racism and requires no systemic bias or inherent power structure.  To have a meaningful discussion on the matter it might be wise to hash out your terms as the excellent Matt Dillahunty would say.

[Guild]

2 minutes ago, Panthers1990 said:

That is NOT racism. That is prejudice. Racism is prejudice WITH power. Black people have do NOT have the power to systematically oppress white people in this country. 

rac·ism

ˈrāˌsizəm/

noun

 

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

   • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

 

This is why it is a wise decision to agree on definitions.  You are both correct and incorrect.

I hope you don't see me as antagonistic nothing but appreciation for the fact that everyone is trying to have a tough discussion. :)

[panthers55]

22 minutes ago, Panthers1990 said:

That is NOT racism. You wish so badly that it was though.

You are an ignorant person and have no business speaking on race relations. You are apart of the problem in this country. How proud you must be. Buh-bye.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/racism

I have been called lots of things but ignorant is rarely one of them. 

Just for your information I suspect I have done more for black causes  in my 60 years than you have in yours. But I am sure in your mind that couldn't be true since I am white and part of the problem. 

[Guild]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/racism

I have been called lots of things but ignorant is rarely one of them. 

Just for your information I suspect I have done more for black causes  in my 60 years than you have in yours. But I am sure in your mind that couldn't be true since I am white and part of the problem. 

The first line you posted is great but the last paragraph is very antagonistic I don't see how you can have a meaningful discussion with that approach.  Perhaps your intended goal is just oneupsmanship in which case forgive my interjection.

[Vagrant]

Can we just take a moment to address how much of a no-win situation this is for any black athlete? It's frustrating because it puts Cam in a place where he has to either look like a "cornbread brother" to quote Jason Whitlock, by saying that race relations are 100% peachy in America or he's some militant black panther (ha) that drives the divide even further. There's no way to answer this question without the media taking it in one of those two directions and it's unfair to all he has accomplished. Cam took the high road here, as he always does, and said it's not an issue for him in his daily life. Which is probably true, because he's king of Charlotte. Everybody smiles when they see Cam. Because Cam is a good man. That's good enough for me. 

BUT I do think it's a stretch to say that we, collectively, as a society are "beyond that." I think anyone watching the news lately could tell you that's not true. It may be true for Cam, but on a national scale it's still very real. It's just unfortunate that all this extra weight goes on Cam's shoulders because of his race. Aaron Rodgers doesn't get questions like this. 

[Guild]

1 minute ago, Panthers1990 said:

You're basically telling me that black people systematically oppress white people in this country, and you KNOW that is not true. 

I'm not going to believe google when they tell me that black people can and do systematically oppress white people. It isnt true. So Idc about some inaccurate definition written by a white person. 

No I did not tell you that.  You have attributed a definition to a term that I perhaps do not agree with.  Perhaps I do.  We haven't even gotten to that part of the discussion my friend.

[Montsta]

Cam is in a fuged position either way. Much like Jordan did for decades, he can keep quiet and become the face of his sport, earn big money, and make big endorsement deals, and then after his playing days are long over, he can use that accrued wealth to make an actual difference in the "black" (poor, inner-city, disenfranchised, none of which should be taken in with a negative or racist connotation btw) community. 

If he comes out and voices concern like Michael Bennett, then he will turn off sponsors left and right. But then some people will say he isn't black enough or doing what he needs to do. 

I don't pretend to know him or his train of thought, but I highly doubt he believes racism isn't prevalent in America. 

Americans are short-sited, fickle, unsatisfiable, whiny bitches. I'll bet the hate comes almost as much from the fact he played in the SEC as it does because he is black. Some backwoods guys that are so stuck on the fact that he beat their favorite college team 6 fuging years ago they can't stand him.

Just read the comments section on any PFT article. Every comment is something about jumping on the ball in the SB and being an egomaniac. Never mind that he spends more time with children than probably any fuging pro athlete ever, or the fact that he takes more hits and goes over the pile at the goal line than any QB ever, doesn't matter, he is still afraid to get hurt. 

Point being after this whole rant is that people hate Cam Newton because people are willfully ignorant fugs and they are stupid, and race is just one of many ingredients that go into it. 

Edit: I don't envy the position Cam is in both as an athlete with a voice and as a black man with a platform to speak on important issues, and he's kind of in a no-win situation. I do thank god he's the face of my favorite team though and wouldn't want anyone else there. I look forward to telling my grandkids about how awesome it was to watch him play the way he does with passion and enthusiasm and a competitive drive that is unparalleled. 

[panthers55]

20 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

not the point. how many white people's lives are measurably affected by the collective power of black racism?

how many black peoples' lives are measurably affected by the collective power of white racism?

there's a huge disparity between the two and the point is it looks really selfish and privileged to surface the tiny little sliver of racism white people face on a daily basis whenever a black person brings up what they have to face to succeed in society. in fact one might even call it ...a race card?

I can't take on the whole white race or atone for others mistakes. Likewise I don't agree that because blacks have been more greatly negatively affected that it negates their own form of racism. One doesn't excuse the other. If it wrong for one it is just as wrong for others. I have always lived by the motto we should treat people as we want to be treated not like we are being treated.

[Guild]

8 minutes ago, Panthers1990 said:

You're basically telling me that black people systematically oppress white people in this country, and you KNOW that is not true. 

I'm not going to believe google when they tell me that black people can and do systematically oppress white people. It isnt true. So Idc about some inaccurate definition written by a white person. 

Additionally I would like to add that my provided definition was merely to demonstrate that when people use the term racism is does not necessarily mean what you insist it must mean.  That is why we have to agree to what our terms mean before any meaningful dialogue can be had other than self affirming ones.  Arguing with people only increases their resoluteness almost all of the time unless you do this first.

 

Forgive me PhillyB for not reaching deep enough into my lexicon to not repeat words and word-parts.

[Montsta]

6 minutes ago, Vagrant said:

Can we just take a moment to address how much of a no-win situation this is for any black athlete? It's frustrating because it puts Cam in a place where he has to either look like a "cornbread brother" to quote Jason Whitlock, by saying that race relations are 100% peachy in America or he's some militant black panther (ha) that drives the divide even further. There's no way to answer this question without the media taking it in one of those two directions and it's unfair to all he has accomplished. Cam took the high road here, as he always does, and said it's not an issue for him in his daily life. Which is probably true, because he's king of Charlotte. Everybody smiles when they see Cam. Because Cam is a good man. That's good enough for me. 

BUT I do think it's a stretch to say that we, collectively, as a society are "beyond that." I think anyone watching the news lately could tell you that's not true. It may be true for Cam, but on a national scale it's still very real. It's just unfortunate that all this extra weight goes on Cam's shoulders because of his race. Aaron Rodgers doesn't get questions like this. 

You must have wrote this while I was writing mine as I didn't see it, but you hit the nail on the head. Bravo. 

Cam is basically fuged no matter what he does.