Ozzie Newsome and John Schneider

[ncguy2184]

11 hours ago, UpstatePanther said:

Fair enough. Truthfully, I brought this up more as education for myself than anything. I had just heard rumors about Seattle, and even if they weren't legit, the question of how Gettleman avoids common GM pitfalls still applies. I know he drafts well and doesn't overpay players. But you'd think all GM's would know to do that... I suppose I was wondering more what sets him apart from even the Ozzie Newsomes, John Schneiders, and Bill Bellicheks of the league.

Superbowl rings...

[Zithers]

5 hours ago, ctrcat said:

All teams, even the 49ers and Browns, have good young players they're excited about.  Clark has lost a ton of weight and looked utterly useless yesterday.  The draft of Shaq (w/5th year option), Funchess, Williams, Mayo, and CAP, absolutely crushes that draft of theirs, with less picks.

a backup OL, a LB who will never ever play on defense, a 3rd string RB, funchess (who did less than lockett), and shaq (who probably made about the same amount of plays as clark last year) does not crush any draft, especially after just one season. quit being a homer.

[Verge]

All three of us will most likely make the playoffs this year..?

[CPantherKing]

16 minutes ago, Verge said:

All three of us will most likely make the playoffs this year..?

Does it even matter if the Panthers make the playoffs without a core of vet DBs?

Rookie DBs up against the rookie wall in the playoffs is a major obstacle to the SB.

Here is to hoping the Panthers get smart and acquire a couple more vet DBs to start while rotating in the rookies early in the season.

[thunderraiden]

The NFL is designed for the best teams to be unable to keep their best players. All you can do it strike it rich in the draft and hope underpaid draftees become underpaid superstars a la Russell Wilson a few seasons ago and currently Kwann Short

[ctrcat]

4 hours ago, Zithers said:

a backup OL, a LB who will never ever play on defense, a 3rd string RB, funchess (who did less than lockett), and shaq (who probably made about the same amount of plays as clark last year) does not crush any draft, especially after just one season. quit being a homer.

Shaq shut down Larry Fitzgerald in the NFCCG.  You're seriously comparing him to Clark?  I never said Lockett didn't do more last year but he is also two years older than Funchess and as we've already seen age/experience is a big deal with Funchess.  Players of Lockett's size and skill set are also easier to find...as the Hawks attempted but failed to find a year prior with Richardson.  The rest are day 3 picks, better than they got from theirs.

[ctrcat]

14 hours ago, ctrcat said:

Schneider, by luck or skill, pulled the lever and hit the jackpot in the 2010-2012 drafts.  Since then, he's literally been an awful GM.  He just got a raise, but it's for what he did 2010-2012.

Among his lowlights since

trading for Harvin, trading for Graham, getting cute in the draft by trading back instead of taking players that would have been available at positions of need and helped (Bitonio, Butler).  Not having a clue about how to put together an OL (drafting Britt over Turner), not taking advantage of the 5th year option even once in the new CBA, only having one 1st rounder on the roster under the new CBA (Ifedi), paying a premium for too many stars while inevitably being forced to bottom feed on the rest of the 53 man roster in future years, setting an awful precedent in Lynch and Chancellor's holdouts which inevitably irked Bennett and others, etc.

I'd be remiss as well if CB Cary Williams as a solution to the #2 CB spot for 3 years $18 million wasn't added to the wall of shame.  Spot is currently manned by BRANDON BROWNER and Tharold Simon who KB abused in the Divisional Round.

[electro's horse]

Schneider is a cap wizard who works with great with Pete Carroll from a coaching an personnel standpoint. They hit one draft out of the fuging park in the later rounds, and had a top 6 or so QB fall into their lap in the third. For years they've been paying far below market value for top tier talent (sherman, wilson, etc) allowing them to bring in vets to supplement their young stars. 

However, the Seahawks have failed to add top end talent in the first round due to their penchant for trading the picks away. Percy Harvin and now Jimmy Graham are probably both sunk costs, and they just spent a first on a project guard with bad measurables. 

In addition, the team has some bizarre fascination with tom cable, who doesn't actually want good players on the offensive line. There was a ton of ink spilled last year about just how shittily coached their o line was, and eventually wilson will zig when he should zag and get obliterated.

the seahawks have lots of good players and the sun isn't going to set on them any time soon. However, it's unrealistic to expect a team to draft again like they did 2010-2012. They probably accurately realized now is their time and are leverage future picks for proven assets, but their eye for talent/health hasn't done them any favors. I think their star is certainly less bright than Carolina's right now (overall talent, age, cam>wilson, division) but almost every team in the league would switch positions with them. 

If you want this to be a cautionary tale for carolina, 1. don't trade first rounders and 2. get good people on the offensive line. 

[electro's horse]

Newsome is just dealing with the eventuality of a great team getting old. They've been producing defensive players forever, and they're currently transitioning from that old core to a new one. 

On the offensive side, they won a superbowl with their QB in a contract year and his agent was able to dictate terms. Not much you can do about that, even if Flacco is hideously overpaid. 

Main take away is don't let yourself be a in a situation where a player has too much leverage in negotiations. Ozzie rolled and lost, and they've been working around Flacco's contract (at least for two years) since. Same thing happened to Hurney. They were against the wall with Peppers, drafted a player to hopefully provide leverage (everette brown), traded way too much treasure to do so, lost him anyway, and were basically doomed to five years of cap and draft hell.

It's another reason the Panthers drafted Butler this year. They want something to push back against KK/Star when the day inevitably comes. 

[SOJA]

We will contend with the Seahawks for the forseeable future

[ctrcat]

50 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Schneider is a cap wizard who works with great with Pete Carroll from a coaching an personnel standpoint. They hit one draft out of the fuging park in the later rounds, and had a top 6 or so QB fall into their lap in the third. For years they've been paying far below market value for top tier talent (sherman, wilson, etc) allowing them to bring in vets to supplement their young stars. 

However, the Seahawks have failed to add top end talent in the first round due to their penchant for trading the picks away. Percy Harvin and now Jimmy Graham are probably both sunk costs, and they just spent a first on a project guard with bad measurables. 

In addition, the team has some bizarre fascination with tom cable, who doesn't actually want good players on the offensive line. There was a ton of ink spilled last year about just how shittily coached their o line was, and eventually wilson will zig when he should zag and get obliterated.

the seahawks have lots of good players and the sun isn't going to set on them any time soon. However, it's unrealistic to expect a team to draft again like they did 2010-2012. They probably accurately realized now is their time and are leverage future picks for proven assets, but their eye for talent/health hasn't done them any favors. I think their star is certainly less bright than Carolina's right now (overall talent, age, cam>wilson, division) but almost every team in the league would switch positions with them. 

If you want this to be a cautionary tale for carolina, 1. don't trade first rounders and 2. get good people on the offensive line. 

My biggest "concern" is that their line will be so bad that Wilson will get hurt and their 3rd felon pickup in 16 months with no backlash, Boykin, and a subpar back-end NFL roster will truly lead to an off the rails season and a top draft pick.  They truly don't concern me otherwise.

[Mojo]

The Ray Rice situation and injuries hurt bmore.  Seattle is fine and I don't see them going anywhere.  

[ctrcat]

11 minutes ago, Mojo said:

The Ray Rice situation and injuries hurt bmore.  Seattle is fine and I don't see them going anywhere.  

The Ray Rice "situation", i.e. Ray Rice knocking his now wife into next week, was his own doing and hurt the Carolina Panthers infinitely more than bmore.

I can see WHY people say Seattle is fine. Even if he's no Cam, they do have a franchise QB.  They're also going to have nothing but d*ck in hand while guys like Shaq and KB are playing out rookie deals.  Think about this-even with Cam, Luke, Ryan, Greg, and our post 2014 rookies signed through 2018, we still have $77.8 million in cap available right now for 2018.  They have $22.6 million available, a year when Sherman, Chancellor, and Baldwin turn 30.  That's not even including the $22 million cap advantage for this year we have over them and likely rollover we will have.

[Cj72]

I've always felt like drafting bpa helps alleviate some of the problems described here. It makes the roster more talented from top to bottom and makes it easier to avoid having to pay a player more than they are worth or being crippled by a devastating injury.