Rogue One

[Darth Biscuit]

On 1/10/2017 at 2:29 PM, CarolinaCoolin said:

The prequels weren't made for you. They were made for a younger audience and buy in larger that younger audience loves the prequels and has hooks them on Star Wars for life just like the original movies did for the older generation. 

 

The story is actually one of the most compelling parts. Anakin as this tragic conflicted character, the Jedi not being as all good as they were made out to be, the clone wars, the sith plot to rule the Galaxy. All amazing. 

You don't want to hear opposing viewpoints and you're just going to yap that guys like me and CWG are too old to understand, but what the hell...

 

While it is an interesting theory that Lucas made the prequels aimed more at a younger audience, I'm not sure if that's true or not but it's certainly plausible.  Younger audience or not, there's no denying that parts of the plot, and more particularly the dialogue in the prequels is awful.

As CWG mentioned, if you can make Natalie Portman and SLJ look bad, you've accomplished something.

 

The OVERALL story and GRAND IDEAS of the prequels is excellent, which was always Lucas' strong point.  He just should have left the story telling and dialogue writing to the guys (like Kasdan) who are actually good at it.

 

So far Disney has made two Star Wars movies;

TFA, which appealed to young and old audiences alike, was very "Star Wars" and didn't sound like a 2nd grader wrote the dialogue...

and

RO, which mainly catered to existing Star Wars fans more (which is EXACTLY the right thing for them to do) and also had coherent plot and dialogue.

 

They've managed to do this without offending existing fans and while gaining legions of new, younger fans.

 

Sorry, Lucas never had a grasp on this.

[CarolinaCoolin]

1 hour ago, Darth Biscuit said:

You don't want to hear opposing viewpoints and you're just going to yap that guys like me and CWG are too old to understand, but what the hell...

 

While it is an interesting theory that Lucas made the prequels aimed more at a younger audience, I'm not sure if that's true or not but it's certainly plausible.  Younger audience or not, there's no denying that parts of the plot, and more particularly the dialogue in the prequels is awful.

As CWG mentioned, if you can make Natalie Portman and SLJ look bad, you've accomplished something.

 

The OVERALL story and GRAND IDEAS of the prequels is excellent, which was always Lucas' strong point.  He just should have left the story telling and dialogue writing to the guys (like Kasdan) who are actually good at it.

 

So far Disney has made two Star Wars movies;

TFA, which appealed to young and old audiences alike, was very "Star Wars" and didn't sound like a 2nd grader wrote the dialogue...

and

RO, which mainly catered to existing Star Wars fans more (which is EXACTLY the right thing for them to do) and also had coherent plot and dialogue.

 

They've managed to do this without offending existing fans and while gaining legions of new, younger fans.

 

Sorry, Lucas never had a grasp on this.

Nah I just don't give a fug about your opinion. 

 

TFA was a literal plot rip from ANH. There's no new story telling involved there. 

 

RO was excellent. 

 

The prequels were definitely catered to a younger audience. That isn't a theory. That's a fact. 

The point was that the prequels are as bad as old fugs like you make them out to be. And I stand by that. 

[Darth Biscuit]

36 minutes ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

Nah I just don't give a fug about your opinion. 

 

TFA was a literal plot rip from ANH. There's no new story telling involved there. 

 

RO was excellent. 

 

The prequels were definitely catered to a younger audience. That isn't a theory. That's a fact. 

The point was that the prequels are as bad as old fugs like you make them out to be. And I stand by that. 

You obviously give enough of a fug to respond, so thanks.

 

And I'm glad you realized you were wrong. I agree.  The prequels are awful, most especially in comparison to the originals.

 

 

[Darth Biscuit]

40 minutes ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

 

 

TFA was a literal plot rip from ANH. There's no new story telling involved there. 

 

Also you missed my point completely which isn't surprising for someone so young...  I didn't argue at all that the plot for TFA was original, it wasn't, but it did in fact do both things I said, not offend existing fans and gain new ones in the process.

So far Disney has done a FAR superior job than Lucas in that department.

[CarolinaCoolin]

35 minutes ago, Darth Biscuit said:

You obviously give enough of a fug to respond, so thanks.

 

And I'm glad you realized you were wrong. I agree.  The prequels are awful, most especially in comparison to the originals.

 

 

Me responding doesn't mean I actually give a fug. If I did I would have spent time telling/showing/proving that you were wrong but you aren't worth the effort. It's much more fun for me to tell you to go fug yourself :)

[R0CKnR0LLA]

The prequels were garbage, except maybe the last one which was still only so-so. Not garbage when compared to the original trilogy either, terrible compared to movies in general. Bad acting, bad dialog, horrible characters, way too much dependence on CGI (and bad CGI at that) and on and on. Honestly I try to forget the prequels even exist.

[Darth Biscuit]

39 minutes ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

Me responding doesn't mean I actually give a fug. If I did I would have spent time telling/showing/proving that you were wrong but you aren't worth the effort. It's much more fun for me to tell you to go fug yourself :)

I'm eager for you to tell/show/prove an opinion about fictional works is right/wrong/otherwise.  Me thinks I'll be waiting a while, especially when you've already agreed with us that the prequels are as bad as we say.

 

 

[cookinwithgas]

 

I just got through the first one on the list before I had to stop.

And while the CGI is bad by todays standards, then it was considered top tier, so I can't fault that. Design and costumes were all pretty great. But it's the characters that make you invest in a movie and these movies characters were flat and one dimensional, and seemed at times to serve the action sequences and not the other way around. That's not pandering to kids, that's lazy writing and plotting. A good movie can be made for kids and still be loved by adults. I can present Harry Potter to you all as examples of both - the first HP movie was incredibly pandering to children in it's plot, but adults that could get past that saw that there were some good things being built. By the middle/end of the series it was mostly working for everyone in the theater.

Another example: LOTR seemed to be enjoyed by adults and kids (ok more adults maybe but there were plenty of Gimli moments for the kids. The Hobbit movies were for kids and they tried to throw in some adult stuff, and mostly failed, because it wasn't done that well. No one is going to remember the Hobbit movies as anything but a money grab 50 years from now, and that disappoints me terribly. The same is going to be true for the prequel movies - nostalgia for the adults who grew up on them but that's about it - especially if Disney can keep up what they are doing.

Example of a movie made for kids, but loved just as much by adults: The Princess Bride. It's silly, funny, has tons of action kids enjoy without adult type violence, but it was well written and acted, the characters were all interesting and complex for a comedy, and everyone still loves it today.

[Darth Biscuit]

That middle section of your post @cookinwithgas is exactly my point.  Thank you.  

[RealBitsOfPanther]

My wife and I are both under 30 and HATE the prequels and try to pretend they dont exist.  We both laugh at Hayden Christensen every time they come on spike. We love the original trilogy, TFA and R1. Saying that you don't like the prequels because you're older is just lazy. 

[Scrumtrilescent]

If you love the prequels you love sand, thunderous applause, trade blockades, and the Empire.

[Bronn]

FWIW I have no shame in saying I saw TPM three times in the theater...

IDGAF, it was Star Wars, and new Star Wars at that...

Yes, the prequels deserve all the hate they get. ROTS wasn't terrible, though.

Also FWIW, most people that hate the prequels do so out of knowledge of the existence of the original trilogy. In a vacuum, one could argue that the prequels aren't the worst movies ever made. It is because people judge them based on 4,5,6 that they get so much hate.

Hell, Lucas had to go out there and create the Special Editions with fixed mistakes, cleaned up stuff, etc, for probably monetary/marketing reasons. They messed up stuff more with some of the things they did with those (Han shot first btw) than they did with the prequels IMHO. It looks terrible when Han is walking around Jabba at Mos Eisley and he steps on his tail, lol. Give me Hayden Christensen any day over that crap...

The age thing has some validity. Cue my old man voice...

Today's movies are pretty terrible for the most part. Sure, you'll get a decent idea out there every now and then, but, Hollywood is pretty stale. Look at the amount of remakes getting done. There just aren't original ideas out there anymore.

Look at the Fast and the Furious series. I don't know that I have watched one of these movies in its entirety, yet they are on like, what, episode 8-9 now? But marketing, and a lot of the people that see them, will tell you how they are great.

Harry Potter... I never read the books and tried to get into the movies. I think I made it through 4-5 and just gave up because it was the same plot every frickin' movie!

It is refreshing when a new movie comes out that is original for the most part. Hell, it is even refreshing when a remake of an old movie is well done (Mad Max for instance.)

But I really think that filmmakers, musicians, etc. and the younger people today just have this unoriginal and watered down view of things like art, music, and film, and that maybe we've just reached some sort of "end of originality," or something close to it. It will take a paradigm shift for us to do new things.

The prequels, and even TFA to an extent are an example of this. To me, at least, Rogue 1 was a refreshing, adult take on a story in the Star Wars universe that just happened to be important to the events in the other films. TFA gets bonus points on my rankings, though, because it was a well done continuation of the story, whereas the prequels, as referenced, were a poor attempt at providing backstory.

[Darth Biscuit]

I don't even hate the prequels... I take them for what they are.  Lucas had a vision, he made the movies.  I didn't personally like the vision or the movies, but they aren't all bad.  Like @Bronn said, it's still "Star Wars" and I still went to see them the first day they were out just like I did with all the rest of the movies.

But if you're honest and subjective, they don't compare to the originals, and Disney is doing a MUCH better job with these new movies than I'd dared to hope.

If anything, Lucas tried TOO hard to make the prequels perfect and it was his downfall.  Star Wars is in much better hands now, and I'm glad Lucas sold it and got out.

 

 

As a side note... why come to an internet forum if you don't want other people's opinions?  If you LOVE the prequels, good on you... who am I to say you're wrong, I'm glad you enjoy them... but it doesn't mean you have to argue to the death that you're right and I'm wrong and can only tell people that disagree with your opinions to "fug off".  I'm sure that'll fall on deaf ears, but so be it... I felt it needed said.

[Scrumtrilescent]

I agree, I won't even tell you how many times I saw TPM in the theaters, and that we went to see it opening night after a Calc final and were blasting the Imperial March out of the car.  From our Sony Walkman with the sweet tape player adapter.  Don't be jealous.  

 

 

And I say the SE OT movies hurt me more overall than the prequels.  The Jabba's Palace song and dance scene should've been illegal.