LSAT / Law School

[h0llywood]

Has anyone taken it? Any tips or tricks? Any attorneys here? I'm ditching my business and wanting to go to Law School instead. The idea of going back to school for another 4 years seems dreadful to me. Any feedback or stories would be helpful.

[SmokinwithWilly]

My wife was entertaining the idea of heading to law school. We bought her the PSAT practice book and she started going through it and while she got about 80% of it right, it got very boring for her and she got very annoyed at how some of the laws work. Things that made absolutely no sense at all that were law drove her crazy. If it's what you want to do man, go for it. I was actually going to pursue it myself but my wife says I don't have the temperament for it, and after being to court a few times myself, I think she's more than right. 

[KSpan]

Job prospects in the law field are atrocious right now. I have a couple of friends who regret it immensely. This is, of course, a lone anecdotal example but the landscape is dim around the country.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/business/dealbook/burdened-with-debt-law-school-graduates-struggle-in-job-market.html?_r=0

[Anybodyhome]

I was pursuing a Maritime Law Degree when I retired from the Navy and went no further with it. In some respects, I'm glad I left the program. I was looking at some serious cash to finish, and that was with the old GI Bill kicking in a good portion. 

Anyway, I took the LSAT in 1986 (missed by a few points) and again in 1989 (easily passed) while at the Naval War College in Newport. From what I understand, if I wanted to go back and pick up where I left off, a school could ask me to take it again since the LSAT was changed in 1991 and I'm not sure how long the test scores are valid. 

Anyway, I didn't think it was that difficult as long as you remain completely unemotional and don't allow your personal biases influence your thinking. The law is pretty cut & dried and is really nothing more than common sense. It's the many interpretations, precedents and rulings over the life of a particular law that often times makes it much more difficult to understand. 

I think the key to getting into any kind of legal field is to find one that is interesting to you, there is a need for and will provide you with a career ladder. If I had to do it over again, I might have pushed a little harder and rolled right into a law career right after retiring from the Navy. But, at the time, I just wanted to get away from it all for a while.         

[h0llywood]

As with most things, the biggest deterrent is the cost of tuition. The school I want to go to will cost about $160,000 over 4 years. And as a working professional, I would be doing night classes Monday-Thursday from 6:00-10:00 p.m. I'm a family man and being away from my family for this long worries me as I would imagine the effects it would have on my relationships.

I currently operate a legal support company and I deal with attorneys, paralegals and legal assistants daily. I consult for governmental agencies and my biggest clients are attorney generals with several states. My frame of mind is "why work for them when I can be them?" 

As for the job prospect aspect, I'm not as worried about getting into large firms as I do not want to get lost in the muddle of 1,000 associates. I don't want to be a number at a firm. I would much rather start a small practice since I have that entrepreneur mindset already. 

The last reason why I want to go to law school is the education. At the end of the day, it is a doctorates degree. Being a first generation college grad, getting a JD would be a great personal achievement.

[h0llywood]

2 hours ago, KSpan said:

Job prospects in the law field are atrocious right now. I have a couple of friends who regret it immensely. This is, of course, a lone anecdotal example but the landscape is dim around the country.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/business/dealbook/burdened-with-debt-law-school-graduates-struggle-in-job-market.html?_r=0

This article is scary to say the least.

[Bama Panther]

I took the LSAT back in 2004. There are trips/tricks, especially with the logic games questions. However, I cannot remember any of them. I took a prep course (either Kaplan or TestMasters). It improved my score by a few points, and if I had officially scored something similar to my last few practice tests, I would have gotten into some better (at the time) schools. The education is great, but as some have already said, the prospects aren't great at this point. However, if you plan to hang your own shingle, the job prospects should not really matter. If you are a good attorney and do the work, the business will come.

I have been practicing since 2008. I went to law school with the intent of being a sports agent. I took a bit of a different turn as I have been an Air Force JAG my entire attorney career. I've loved it though. Much like the agent thing, when I joined the JAG Corps, I did not have any desire to be a litigator, but I have now been solely in criminal litigation since 2011. I have been a senior prosecutor traveling around the world prosecuting the most serious courts-martial, and I am now a senior defense counsel, responsible for the defense services provided to over 15K Airmen across four installations. I also get to defend many Airmen in the most serious courts-martial.

I write all this to say that the legal career field can be any number of things, and it does not have to be pigeonholed into any particular aspect of the law. There are numerous things you can do with a JD. You just have to be willing to put in the work, and it sounds like you are willing to do that. The schooling will be tough, but it is certainly manageable. First year courses are typically the hardest, as you are also learning how they teach and how to study cases. After that, you know what to look for and how to apply it.

Whatever you choose, good luck. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

[h0llywood]

4 hours ago, Bama Panther said:

I took the LSAT back in 2004. There are trips/tricks, especially with the logic games questions. However, I cannot remember any of them. I took a prep course (either Kaplan or TestMasters). It improved my score by a few points, and if I had officially scored something similar to my last few practice tests, I would have gotten into some better (at the time) schools. The education is great, but as some have already said, the prospects aren't great at this point. However, if you plan to hang your own shingle, the job prospects should not really matter. If you are a good attorney and do the work, the business will come.

I have been practicing since 2008. I went to law school with the intent of being a sports agent. I took a bit of a different turn as I have been an Air Force JAG my entire attorney career. I've loved it though. Much like the agent thing, when I joined the JAG Corps, I did not have any desire to be a litigator, but I have now been solely in criminal litigation since 2011. I have been a senior prosecutor traveling around the world prosecuting the most serious courts-martial, and I am now a senior defense counsel, responsible for the defense services provided to over 15K Airmen across four installations. I also get to defend many Airmen in the most serious courts-martial.

I write all this to say that the legal career field can be any number of things, and it does not have to be pigeonholed into any particular aspect of the law. There are numerous things you can do with a JD. You just have to be willing to put in the work, and it sounds like you are willing to do that. The schooling will be tough, but it is certainly manageable. First year courses are typically the hardest, as you are also learning how they teach and how to study cases. After that, you know what to look for and how to apply it.

Whatever you choose, good luck. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Thats awesome, thanks for the response. Ive pondered going JAG route however im not sure how it works being prior military and will be in my mid 30s when im done with law school.

Does being JAG require a commission on active duty or is it on a reserve role? Does being a JAG automatically allow an accelerated promotion to O-3 or do you start at O-1? Is there an age limit? I wouldnt mind putting on another uniform, even if its another service.

What law school did you go to if you dont mind me asking? Do you think there is a big difference with ABA accredited and state accredited only schools?

[TruthVsComfort]

I am a divorce/family law attorney in the triangle area of NC. I graduated from UNC School of Law in 2013. I practice in a small firm of three attorneys and our firm practices exclusively in family law. I would generally caution anyone considering going to law school to make sure they have carefully weighed all the options first. I say this because the legal job market is generally terrible. Although I have a good position in a healthy firm with plenty of business and make a decent living, I consider myself among the few lucky law graduates. Even when graduating from a top law school like UNC, it was a mighty struggle for my classmates to secure good jobs. If someone has an interest in fields such as medical/healthcare, IT/Technology/programming, or engineering, I would strongly encourage someone to pursue a profession in those fields as there are actually jobs waiting for you. The legal profession, unfortunately, is completely over-saturated with too many law schools pumping out too many law students and there is simply not enough work for everyone. All that said, if you have carefully weighed all of your options and this seems to be your only decent option, then perhaps you should go for it. Like you, I am a first generation college student, and I cannot blame you for wanting to challenge yourself and grow professionally/academically. I am happy to discuss this more thoroughly on or off forum if you like.

[Bama Panther]

On August 13, 2016 at 10:59 AM, h0llywood said:

Thats awesome, thanks for the response. Ive pondered going JAG route however im not sure how it works being prior military and will be in my mid 30s when im done with law school.

Does being JAG require a commission on active duty or is it on a reserve role? Does being a JAG automatically allow an accelerated promotion to O-3 or do you start at O-1? Is there an age limit? I wouldnt mind putting on another uniform, even if its another service.

What law school did you go to if you dont mind me asking? Do you think there is a big difference with ABA accredited and state accredited only schools?

I can't speak for all services, but the Air Force JAG Corp now allows folks to enter the JAG Corp as a Guardsman or Reservist. Most go to active duty, but some start their JAG careers in one of the reserve components.

It does have an accelerated promotion to O-3. Once a JAG accepts his/her appointment, he/she is then a First Lieutenant. Six months after the date of entry onto active duty, that person will be promoted to Capt. I believe there is an age limit, but it is often waived for great candidates.

I went to the University of Alabama School of Law, graduating in 2007. With the job market as some have stated, I think you would be far more marketable if you attended an ABA-accredited school. 

[h0llywood]

15 hours ago, TruthVsComfort said:

I am a divorce/family law attorney in the triangle area of NC. I graduated from UNC School of Law in 2013. I practice in a small firm of three attorneys and our firm practices exclusively in family law. I would generally caution anyone considering going to law school to make sure they have carefully weighed all the options first. I say this because the legal job market is generally terrible. Although I have a good position in a healthy firm with plenty of business and make a decent living, I consider myself among the few lucky law graduates. Even when graduating from a top law school like UNC, it was a mighty struggle for my classmates to secure good jobs. If someone has an interest in fields such as medical/healthcare, IT/Technology/programming, or engineering, I would strongly encourage someone to pursue a profession in those fields as there are actually jobs waiting for you. The legal profession, unfortunately, is completely over-saturated with too many law schools pumping out too many law students and there is simply not enough work for everyone. All that said, if you have carefully weighed all of your options and this seems to be your only decent option, then perhaps you should go for it. Like you, I am a first generation college student, and I cannot blame you for wanting to challenge yourself and grow professionally/academically. I am happy to discuss this more thoroughly on or off forum if you like.

 

15 hours ago, Bama Panther said:

I can't speak for all services, but the Air Force JAG Corp now allows folks to enter the JAG Corp as a Guardsman or Reservist. Most go to active duty, but some start their JAG careers in one of the reserve components.

It does have an accelerated promotion to O-3. Once a JAG accepts his/her appointment, he/she is then a First Lieutenant. Six months after the date of entry onto active duty, that person will be promoted to Capt. I believe there is an age limit, but it is often waived for great candidates.

I went to the University of Alabama School of Law, graduating in 2007. With the job market as some have stated, I think you would be far more marketable if you attended an ABA-accredited school. 

Thanks guys. I went ahead and took the plunge. I registered and paid for the LSAT test to be administered December 3. I'm not sure but I think going head first into this is probably the best thing to do instead of pussyfooting around. 

I have 3 months to study and I think I can get it done.

[SOJA]

On 8/12/2016 at 8:22 AM, KSpan said:

Job prospects in the law field are atrocious right now. I have a couple of friends who regret it immensely. This is, of course, a lone anecdotal example but the landscape is dim around the country.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/business/dealbook/burdened-with-debt-law-school-graduates-struggle-in-job-market.html?_r=0

I have family friends, both parents are lawyers, they're only advice they give people is to NOT go into law right now

 

good luck OP

[thefuzz]

Good luck.  The school side of things is awfully tough, and then comes finding a job after that.

My little sister graduated from law school 2 years ago, no. 1 in her class, got a position as a clerk for a federal judge before she passed the bar, and has a job waiting on her back in NC whenever she is done with the judge after this year.

Her story is one of the few like that, she has told me that most of the rest of her class is barely scraping by trying to find decent jobs.

 

Family, full time job, and law classes at night?  Man you are going to be one tired individual if you read/study as much as you need to.....

Good luck man.

[h0llywood]

3 hours ago, thefuzz said:

Good luck.  The school side of things is awfully tough, and then comes finding a job after that.

My little sister graduated from law school 2 years ago, no. 1 in her class, got a position as a clerk for a federal judge before she passed the bar, and has a job waiting on her back in NC whenever she is done with the judge after this year.

Her story is one of the few like that, she has told me that most of the rest of her class is barely scraping by trying to find decent jobs.

 

Family, full time job, and law classes at night?  Man you are going to be one tired individual if you read/study as much as you need to.....

Good luck man.

I just bought 4 LSAT Prep books (just under $200) and i'm counting on my initiative and self motivation to study hard for the next 3 1/2 months. I know it will be tough based on forums i've been viewing on how long and often students who did well on LSATs did. Most of them studied 3-4 hours a day, every day. Not sure if i'll be that committed (especially with football coming around).

I've been working 50 or so hours a week, finished undergrad taking 4-5 classes over weekends and have a wife and 3 kids so it's definitely been challenging the last few years. I feel like doing this will be an easier transition than for most traditional students, but I'm sure other people in the night program are in some similar situation. 

I have a decent GPA (3.7) and hope to score 170 or above which would hopefully help land me some scholarships. As for work prospects, i'm going into this not wanting to work for a large firm. I will either start my own or partner with another law student.