Deems May on WFNZ ~ "KK should hold out."

[Major wRecktum]

3 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

It seems that many people fail to realize the league is reaching the point of the CBA that gives leverage to all the young players they deleveraged in 2011.

This is now the common move and may be the only leverage a player has in their career. They have one shot at a big contract with the current CBA unless they manage to play for 11+ years and hit that 10 year mark at the top of their game, which we all know is unlikely for a majority of the players in the NFL.

The goal now is to get the max contract extension based on league value in year 4 if that player is among the best at their position. If a team is trying to low ball the player or pushing for a team friendly deal, then the player should be advised to hold out and get released, traded, or paid. Ultimately, the goal is to secure a very large amount of guaranteed money, and that player is assured to get what they want in any of those 3 outcomes. Even when a player is franchise tagged now, that player should be advised to take no less than their market value in guaranteed money.

The future value of guaranteed money now for KK significantly outweighs any of the fines levied against him from holding out for a year given his current contract. KK is the best DT on the team and he is the lowest paid of all of them - including Soliai and Butler.

From a business perspective, now is the time for KK to cash in on his value. This is a result of how the Panthers do business. KK is surely being advised against the history of the Panthers' front office. Had the Panthers awarded Norman his market value rather than stringing him out with the franchise tag, and then demonstrating they will use the tag to attempt to diminish the value of a player, they would likely have nothing to worry about from KK.

It's just business. It works both ways. If the Panthers want the team discount, then show loyalty to players and respect the family. Do not expect to play the business card and low ball players while expecting the players to be loyal to the team.

The Panthers have two choices at this moment. Give KK a large amount of guaranteed money in an extension, or trade him to a team that will give him that money in exchange for future picks.

The only players a team will get a team discount for are the young players that should probably be replaced, or the aging vets near retirement who want to stick it out with their family on a team they believe is a contender. Any young 4 to 5 year player among the best in the league at their position will be advised to cash in immediately for the guaranteed money under the current CBA.

Yet again, CPK has given the Huddle a deep insight...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

into nothing.

[Jeremy Igo]

Didn't read the OP,  but suck my ass SCP is always the right answer. 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

topic has been cpantherking'd

[ctrcat]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Agreed. Why in the world is anyone comparing the Von Miller situation to KK in 2016. This would be like Miller holding out pre-2015, not now when Miller is done with his rookie deal and got franchised. Apples, meet oranges.

If KK threatens to hold out next off season when he gets franchise tagged then it is comparable. I don't recall any time or the last time someone threatened to hold out before their rookie contract was even over.

In the current CBA, Wilson last year was in a relatively similar position making 3rd round money and stringing the process along all summer for all it was worth, but even he signed at the "last minute" before training camp.  Obviously they overpaid compared to Cam and got one less year to boot, but there's no other situation remotely close in the new CBA.

[arieslibra1]

7 hours ago, Castavar said:

Absolutely. There is a reason the Pats have been successful for so long. BB implemented a system, they got an elite QB to run that system, and anybody who doesn't want to play in that system for a reasonable price can get the hell out. It just a matter of time until we get to have the success as them if Getts just stands firm. Yeah, it's going to suck to continue losing VERY good players, but it is not worth it at the cost of losing 5 other quality starters for one star player. They didn't win the superbowl every year (that's not the plan), the plan is to have the window open for long periods of time so you can HAVE A SHOT every year to win one, and they so happened to win 4.

So for me, if KK is asking for some ridiculous money that will hinder the team, let him walk.

Yeah might as well. Got to resign plenty of other guys like KB soon anyways.

[pepaw]

5 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

When you run a professional organization like a family, you get three winning seasons in eleven years.

Good fuging Lord. Drive to Virginia and put your balls in my mouth. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Agreed. Why in the world is anyone comparing the Von Miller situation to KK in 2016. This would be like Miller holding out pre-2015, not now when Miller is done with his rookie deal and got franchised. Apples, meet oranges.

If KK threatens to hold out next off season when he gets franchise tagged then it is comparable. I don't recall any time or the last time someone threatened to hold out before their rookie contract was even over.

You're new, so I'll fill you in: CPantherKing is not to be taken seriously.

His whole schtick is to be as negative as possible about pretty much everything.  General consensus is he's not really a Panther fan, just a stupid troll with no life.

His posts are pretty well useless. Feel free to ignore him or laugh at how completely wrong he is (whichever you prefer).

[PhillyB]

no rush whatsoever. with the franchise tag we have him for two more years. by then butler will be entering his third year and we can either jettison short or sign him long term if his play has declined a little to the point where we have the leverage to offer him less.

unless he just ducks and takes a cap friendly deal i don't see us in any big hurry to sign him.

[ctrcat]

7 minutes ago, PhillyB said:

no rush whatsoever. with the franchise tag we have him for two more years. by then butler will be entering his third year and we can either jettison short or sign him long term if his play has declined a little to the point where we have the leverage to offer him less.

unless he just ducks and takes a cap friendly deal i don't see us in any big hurry to sign him.

I actually think it's great.  The head scratcher though is what to do with all of our cap space now, as a current Super Bowl favorite.  Simply rolling the $14 million that could have been used on the #11 player in the top 100 over would be head scratching at best.

[Jangler]

3 hours ago, pepaw said:

Good fuging Lord. Drive to Virginia and put your balls in my mouth. 

Really? Is there nobody in Virginia that will do that for you?

[CPantherKing]

11 hours ago, Benotheking said:

What are you talking about ? Please name me the last player entering their last year of their rookie contract that held out ? If he holds out he will get fine and loss most of his money. KK has nothing to gain and more to lose. 

There have been players to threaten a holdout and got paid - JJ Watt/Patrick Peterson. They never had to carry it into a holdout. Kam Chancellor was the first to holdout since the CBA, and he got paid.

As for KK losing all his pay, how much guaranteed money would he be due before he even sets foot on the field? If he were to lose all his pay this year, which is unlikely, he would lose $1.5M. He will easily get $50M in guaranteed money based on his market value. Are you willing to lose $1.5M to secure $50M? The other likelihood if there is an injury or his value dips after the 2016 season would be that he gets his $1.5M and $20M to $40M in guaranteed money - an overall loss. There is little to no room for KK to raise his market value from where it is currently. It would be a bad business decision for him to do anything other than holdout. I would advise kK to sit out for the year if the Panthers refuse to give him guaranteed money, trade him, or release him. He will get his guaranteed money from some team. Risking that guaranteed money by playing out his contract would be an extremely risky business decision.

As a note, it is common for teams to give back the fines or a portion of the fines when the holdout is resolved between the parties.

[KushMcDieselson]

14 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

There have been players to threaten a holdout and got paid - JJ Watt/Patrick Peterson. They never had to carry it into a holdout. Kam Chancellor was the first to holdout since the CBA, and he got paid.

As for KK losing all his pay, how much guaranteed money would he be due before he even sets foot on the field? If he were to lose all his pay this year, which is unlikely, he would lose $1.5M. He will easily get $50M in guaranteed money based on his market value. Are you willing to lose $1.5M to secure $50M? The other likelihood if there is an injury or his value dips after the 2016 season would be that he gets his $1.5M and $20M to $40M in guaranteed money - an overall loss. There is little to no room for KK to raise his market value from where it is currently. It would be a bad business decision for him to do anything other than holdout. I would advise kK to sit out for the year if the Panthers refuse to give him guaranteed money, trade him, or release him. He will get his guaranteed money from some team. Risking that guaranteed money by playing out his contract would be an extremely risky business decision.

As a note, it is common for teams to give back the fines or a portion of the fines when the holdout is resolved between the parties.

So you think sitting out for a year and not playing somehow assures him he will net more guaranteed money when he returns? Maybe. Or maybe it nets him the same or less guaranteed on a shorter term deal with options and incentives almost like a "prove you still got it" deal somewhere. So if he sits a year and still ends up having to prove his high level of play after taking that year off, and making $0 the year he was gone, and potentially ending up with similar guaranteed money, why not sign now, get guaranteed money plus bonuses, and be covered in the event of injury or even having a down year? 

[Snake]

17 hours ago, SCP said:

And i tend to agree with him.  In the NFL the risk of injury is so high and the window to make money is so small.  If you are KK's agent, how would you advise him heading into camp?

On the flip is a extra 3 mill worth not signing a deal and getting hurt. Door swings both ways. Most problems arise as well with what is guaranteed. You could easily make that up in performance. 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

1 hour ago, KushMcDieselson said:

So you think sitting out for a year and not playing somehow assures him he will net more guaranteed money when he returns? Maybe. Or maybe it nets him the same or less guaranteed on a shorter term deal with options and incentives almost like a "prove you still got it" deal somewhere. So if he sits a year and still ends up having to prove his high level of play after taking that year off, and making $0 the year he was gone, and potentially ending up with similar guaranteed money, why not sign now, get guaranteed money plus bonuses, and be covered in the event of injury or even having a down year? 

if he just sat for a year it would almost certainly hurt his value.  if it was such a no duh smart business decision then we should start to expect every guy still on his rookie deal who's due for a big payday to sit out his final year if he doesn't get massive guaranteed money from his team, right?

push comes to shove, a lot of players are going to bet on themselves with the knowledge that, if they go off in the final year of their rookie deal, they're going to be set for life.  even if short gets injured and misses significant time in 2016 that's still the first time that's ever happened to him in his career and he'd still be on track to get a big payout from somebody.

cpantherking kind of operates on his own wavelength with his own system of logic.  like that terrence howard guy who thinks he can logically prove that 1x1=2