Deems May on WFNZ ~ "KK should hold out."

[Castavar]

32 minutes ago, Captain Morgan said:

can you imagine what's going through Getty's mind as he looks at who he has to sign over the next 3 years?  Cam and Luke signed team-friendly deals because they want to win, but we can't expect that from everyone.  

This is the price to pay for having excellent players. NO ONE wants KK back more than me, but not at the expense of Trai, White Buffalo, Star and Benji, just to name a few.  I hated losing Josh, Smitty and Dwill.  

But 15 and 1 is not a small thing.  And we didn't get a ring.  Pats have multiple rings  because they stayed competitive for so long.  Sure some years they didn't get to the AFC championship game, but who really thinks you can do that 3 or 4 years in a row?

If DG and KK aren't close in a deal, then I'd let him play in his contract year and take it from there.  We'd get to see more of our 1st round pick.  With Love and our signing the best DT Atlanta had, we'll be ok if he sits out.  Not as good as with KK, but ok.

Gett needs to make more money.

   

 

Absolutely. There is a reason the Pats have been successful for so long. BB implemented a system, they got an elite QB to run that system, and anybody who doesn't want to play in that system for a reasonable price can get the hell out. It just a matter of time until we get to have the success as them if Getts just stands firm. Yeah, it's going to suck to continue losing VERY good players, but it is not worth it at the cost of losing 5 other quality starters for one star player. They didn't win the superbowl every year (that's not the plan), the plan is to have the window open for long periods of time so you can HAVE A SHOT every year to win one, and they so happened to win 4.

So for me, if KK is asking for some ridiculous money that will hinder the team, let him walk.

[panthers1234]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Holdouts just about never work, and I know it wouldn't fly with Gettleman, so that'd be a big "hell no" on the holdout idea.

The threat of the holdout does work. Look at Von Miller. Heck even kickers are doing it. He demanded an contract extension or he won't resign with his team. 3 hrs later... he gets 4 yr deal and is one of the highest paid kickers. 

[panthers55]

You can't squeeze Gettleman, he would not sign KK in those circumstances just for principle. Plus it gives KK a bad rep around the league which would hurt you negotiating with another team if you don't sign here. He needs to have a career year and ensure he breaks the bank next year.

[The_Rainmaker]

2 hours ago, SCP said:

And i tend to agree with him.  In the NFL the risk of injury is so high and the window to make money is so small.  If you are KK's agent, how would you advise him heading into camp?

4th Option.

Better to be premptive, extend Norwell before his breakout season. I believe we are going to have all pro interior OL

[CPantherKing]

2 hours ago, Benotheking said:

Why would he? It is uncommon for a 4th year player to holdout why would kk? He has nothing to gain and a lot of money to lose

 

 

It seems that many people fail to realize the league is reaching the point of the CBA that gives leverage to all the young players they deleveraged in 2011.

This is now the common move and may be the only leverage a player has in their career. They have one shot at a big contract with the current CBA unless they manage to play for 11+ years and hit that 10 year mark at the top of their game, which we all know is unlikely for a majority of the players in the NFL.

The goal now is to get the max contract extension based on league value in year 4 if that player is among the best at their position. If a team is trying to low ball the player or pushing for a team friendly deal, then the player should be advised to hold out and get released, traded, or paid. Ultimately, the goal is to secure a very large amount of guaranteed money, and that player is assured to get what they want in any of those 3 outcomes. Even when a player is franchise tagged now, that player should be advised to take no less than their market value in guaranteed money.

The future value of guaranteed money now for KK significantly outweighs any of the fines levied against him from holding out for a year given his current contract. KK is the best DT on the team and he is the lowest paid of all of them - including Soliai and Butler.

From a business perspective, now is the time for KK to cash in on his value. This is a result of how the Panthers do business. KK is surely being advised against the history of the Panthers' front office. Had the Panthers awarded Norman his market value rather than stringing him out with the franchise tag, and then demonstrating they will use the tag to attempt to diminish the value of a player, they would likely have nothing to worry about from KK.

It's just business. It works both ways. If the Panthers want the team discount, then show loyalty to players and respect the family. Do not expect to play the business card and low ball players while expecting the players to be loyal to the team.

The Panthers have two choices at this moment. Give KK a large amount of guaranteed money in an extension, or trade him to a team that will give him that money in exchange for future picks.

The only players a team will get a team discount for are the young players that should probably be replaced, or the aging vets near retirement who want to stick it out with their family on a team they believe is a contender. Any young 4 to 5 year player among the best in the league at their position will be advised to cash in immediately for the guaranteed money under the current CBA.

[tiger7_88]

3 hours ago, SCP said:

And i tend to agree with him.  In the NFL the risk of injury is so high and the window to make money is so small.  If you are KK's agent, how would you advise him heading into camp?

I never have a problem with players that hold out when their contract expires or don't sign their franchise tag.  That's their leverage, they should use it.

Short IS UNDER CONTRACT.  Holding out WHILE UNDER CONTRACT is an utterly fugged up thing to do.  Short signed that contract right?  That's not a forged signature is it?

(P.S. I voted "suck my ass" :P )

[CPantherKing]

2 hours ago, Captain Morgan said:

This is the price to pay for having excellent players. NO ONE wants KK back more than me, but not at the expense of Trai, White Buffalo, Star and Benji, just to name a few.  I hated losing Josh, Smitty and Dwill.

Expect the same with Trai, Star, and KB if they have a strong season prior to their "contract year". It is the nature of the CBA and the owners doing business. I do not see Norwell generating enough value to leverage such a situation.

 

28 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

I never have a problem with players that hold out when their contract expires or don't sign their franchise tag.  That's their leverage, they should use it.

Short IS UNDER CONTRACT.  Holding out WHILE UNDER CONTRACT is an utterly fugged up thing to do.  Short signed that contract right?  That's not a forged signature is it?

(P.S. I voted "suck my ass" :P )

When you run an organization on the foundation of doing 'business', then holdouts are a staple of a capitalist system. When a player exceeds their current value, and their market value via trade, release, or extension is substantially higher, then it is the responsibility of an agent to advise a player to holdout. The penalties with the agreed upon contract are substantially less compared to the payoff by exercising leverage a player has generated in the market.

Contracts are meant to be broken in a capitalist system. The owners do it all the time with their businesses when the opportunity arises. Those who fail to exercise their value due to an outperformed contract are the ones being capitalized on by the individuals profiting from the system.

[panthers55]

The whole we can't sign KK to a big contract because we won't have the money for everyone else is not really valid given we didn't say that with Cam or with Luke. Why? Because we all agree that they are game changers and worth it. Only a few guys on any team makes really big bucks and Von Miller just was one of those guys. A lot like Peppers was for us and a lot like KK is for us at the defensive tackle position.That is the only salient point, whether he is worth the money in our scheme or not. Gettleman hit it big with KK. Now the question is whether to pay him the market rate or keep going cheap and counting on hitting it big in the draft as soon as players are off their rookie contracts.

..

[Mr. Scot]

32 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

When you run an organization on the foundation of doing 'business', then holdouts are a staple of a capitalist system.

When you run a professional organization like a family, you get three winning seasons in eleven years.

[Daddy_Uncle]

We have a smart man in charge. He'll do the right thing. At least thr smartest thing for the team

[the butch]

*enter vernon butler*

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Players need to do what they think is best for themselves, teams need to do the same.

The thing that I appreciate about DG is he is less prone to make a personnel decision based on fear than MH was.

Fear of losing a player or fear of not being able to find an adequate replacement led the Panthers into overpaying players and ending up in CAP hell for several years.

No team can afford to pay every player what that player believes they are worth, even if that player is actually worth it.

If money were no object we could all be GMs.

[Benotheking]

1 hour ago, CPantherKing said:

It seems that many people fail to realize the league is reaching the point of the CBA that gives leverage to all the young players they deleveraged in 2011.

This is now the common move and may be the only leverage a player has in their career. They have one shot at a big contract with the current CBA unless they manage to play for 11+ years and hit that 10 year mark at the top of their game, which we all know is unlikely for a majority of the players in the NFL.

The goal now is to get the max contract extension based on league value in year 4 if that player is among the best at their position. If a team is trying to low ball the player or pushing for a team friendly deal, then the player should be advised to hold out and get released, traded, or paid. Ultimately, the goal is to secure a very large amount of guaranteed money, and that player is assured to get what they want in any of those 3 outcomes. Even when a player is franchise tagged now, that player should be advised to take no less than their market value in guaranteed money.

The future value of guaranteed money now for KK significantly outweighs any of the fines levied against him from holding out for a year given his current contract. KK is the best DT on the team and he is the lowest paid of all of them - including Soliai and Butler.

From a business perspective, now is the time for KK to cash in on his value. This is a result of how the Panthers do business. KK is surely being advised against the history of the Panthers' front office. Had the Panthers awarded Norman his market value rather than stringing him out with the franchise tag, and then demonstrating they will use the tag to attempt to diminish the value of a player, they would likely have nothing to worry about from KK.

It's just business. It works both ways. If the Panthers want the team discount, then show loyalty to players and respect the family. Do not expect to play the business card and low ball players while expecting the players to be loyal to the team.

The Panthers have two choices at this moment. Give KK a large amount of guaranteed money in an extension, or trade him to a team that will give him that money in exchange for future picks.

The only players a team will get a team discount for are the young players that should probably be replaced, or the aging vets near retirement who want to stick it out with their family on a team they believe is a contender. Any young 4 to 5 year player among the best in the league at their position will be advised to cash in immediately for the guaranteed money under the current CBA.

What are you talking about ? Please name me the last player entering their last year of their rookie contract that held out ? If he holds out he will get fine and loss most of his money. KK has nothing to gain and more to lose. 

[electro's horse]

My family had a lakehouse next to him at euwharrie when I was growing up. His wife was really hot. 

He woke us up every morning. When he'd go for his morning piss, he'd bring a gun and shoot out the window whatever deer or boar was eating his flowers. You could kill stuff out of season if they were on your property. 

Thanks for reading my story.