Thoughts on Gettleman and KK Short...

[Pimpdaddy]

what makes the difference if you fk the cap by overpaying or let KK walk...AFTER NEXT YEAR.  Money gives you options that change every year..G aint gonna overpay, fact.  He once brought a knife to a gun fight to even the odds...

[The Huddler]

Yeah, If i had to bet money,

 

Short is on our Roster for two more years at least...   this season, and the tag the next..  we have time to get a long term deal done.. 

 

But i believe Star is more important to our defense anyway  Short doesnt have the season he does without playing next to Star 

[stirs]

Gmans alter igo playing head games with KK's agent......

But, I totally agree with him, wait another season unless KK comes to you

[panthers55]

If we are intent on keeping our own as Gettleman says he wants to do, it actually makes sense to sign Short now instead of waiting. I don't agree we have nothing to lose. Frankly if we had  upped  the Norman contract to 10 million ( which we offered him this year before tagging him) before the 2015 season started instead of only offering 7,  he would have been signed for 2016 and the next 3 or 4 years. By low balling him last year and he had a great 2015 season we cost ourselves the chance to sign him at a reasonable cost. Let's remember that Norman wanted to be here.

So we fast forward to now. Short has none of the questions that Norman did about character or attitude.  He had a great year and just like Norman is more likely to step it up in a contract year and do even better. So now we have a guy who everyone touts as one of the best which happens on our defense. And the cap goes up 10 million next year and likely similar amounts for as long as the TV contract is effect. So is paying a few extra million a year now on a 5 year deal that big a deal as to keep us from signing him and having to pay even more next year or lose him to free agency again.  The difference between losing Norman and losing Short aren't even close. Our defense needs only good but not great corners because of our pressure from the front seven and being able to pressure teams with our front four alone. Well folks, the best pressure we had on our front four was Short and it ain't even close. Regardless of what Vernon does for us (And I am hoping a lot.), keeping Short is a priority. Gettleman said it himself. 

Dave here are some musings: The point of not signing Norman was to have money to sign Short and here is your chance. You paid top 3 money for your franchise quarterback, top money for a middle linebacker, and now you can pay top 3 money for your franchise DT.  We appreciated the tough guy stance when we were cash strapped and needed your strong hand. We like the bargains you make now. But we both know how dominant Short is and he hasn't even reached his peak. If he were the highest paid DT on a great new contract his salary will be accounted for by the increase in the cap over the next 2 years. Cmon now. Lighten up Francis and pay the man. If as Jeremy says, he is the next Warren Sapp, is a few million a year worth the pissing contest? Hurney got fired because he had signed big contracts expecting the cap to rise and it stayed flat. The new TV contract almost assures the cap will go up for at least the next few years. You have done a great job reining things in.  But this time make the exception like you did for the other guys and pay the man. Don't be filled with hubris and think you can just keep replacing one chess piece with another. This isn't chess, this is football with great players and a locker room with great chemistry. Part of that goes beyond the business side of the game. It lets our players know that if you bust your ass you will be rewarded and we will give you equal compensation for your skills. We not only assign you a value but we value you and want to pay you accordingly.  This isn't a precedence for everyone else to follow. This is paying a player who deserves it and will prove to be as good a deal on the defensive side as Cam was on the offensive side. He is going to be our best DT ever. I am looking at you Kris Jenkins......

[aussiePanther]

2 hours ago, chris999 said:

Most of the article was spot on except for the part about Vernon Butler being competition.

Our DTs are good, but we dont have enough of them for our scheme. That is why we almost blew leads last year. Our DTs would ball out stopping the run and hinting down the QB, and they would be tired in the second half.

I think we intend to keep both KK and Vernon Butler.

We keep Star and KK on the field until they are at about 80% due to exaustion, then bring in Butler and the other big Samoan guy at the end of the 3rd qtr to have fresh legs against a tired o-line.

We need to pay KK short. If we can wait until next year and use his contract year to our advantage, then great, but we cant afford to lose him.

I love the idea of a big DT rotation, like we have right now.

But there's a draft every year so maybe Getts will do it again next year and Short's contract will be settled one way or the other after that?

[shaqattaq]

14 hours ago, the greatest said:

Im not sure but you were agreeing with me right?

Yes. The Eagles screwed up by setting the price too high, so I say let it ride. The worse that could happen is we get 2 more "contract years" from a pro-bowler for about what 1 would cost under a new contract at Cox's rate.

[GoobyPls]

I think the Norman debacle left a bad taste in Short's mouth.

[Jeremy Igo]

16 hours ago, chris999 said:

Most of the article was spot on except for the part about Vernon Butler being competition.

Our DTs are good, but we dont have enough of them for our scheme. That is why we almost blew leads last year. Our DTs would ball out stopping the run and hinting down the QB, and they would be tired in the second half.

I think we intend to keep both KK and Vernon Butler.

We keep Star and KK on the field until they are at about 80% due to exaustion, then bring in Butler and the other big Samoan guy at the end of the 3rd qtr to have fresh legs against a tired o-line.

We need to pay KK short. If we can wait until next year and use his contract year to our advantage, then great, but we cant afford to lose him.

Name a team that has two pro bowl under tackles. 

[Jeremy Igo]

16 hours ago, panthers55 said:

If we are intent on keeping our own as Gettleman says he wants to do, it actually makes sense to sign Short now instead of waiting. I don't agree we have nothing to lose. Frankly if we had  upped  the Norman contract to 10 million ( which we offered him this year before tagging him) before the 2015 season started instead of only offering 7,  he would have been signed for 2016 and the next 3 or 4 years. By low balling him last year and he had a great 2015 season we cost ourselves the chance to sign him at a reasonable cost. Let's remember that Norman wanted to be here.

So we fast forward to now. Short has none of the questions that Norman did about character or attitude.  He had a great year and just like Norman is more likely to step it up in a contract year and do even better. So now we have a guy who everyone touts as one of the best which happens on our defense. And the cap goes up 10 million next year and likely similar amounts for as long as the TV contract is effect. So is paying a few extra million a year now on a 5 year deal that big a deal as to keep us from signing him and having to pay even more next year or lose him to free agency again.  The difference between losing Norman and losing Short aren't even close. Our defense needs only good but not great corners because of our pressure from the front seven and being able to pressure teams with our front four alone. Well folks, the best pressure we had on our front four was Short and it ain't even close. Regardless of what Vernon does for us (And I am hoping a lot.), keeping Short is a priority. Gettleman said it himself. 

Dave here are some musings: The point of not signing Norman was to have money to sign Short and here is your chance. You paid top 3 money for your franchise quarterback, top money for a middle linebacker, and now you can pay top 3 money for your franchise DT.  We appreciated the tough guy stance when we were cash strapped and needed your strong hand. We like the bargains you make now. But we both know how dominant Short is and he hasn't even reached his peak. If he were the highest paid DT on a great new contract his salary will be accounted for by the increase in the cap over the next 2 years. Cmon now. Lighten up Francis and pay the man. If as Jeremy says, he is the next Warren Sapp, is a few million a year worth the pissing contest? Hurney got fired because he had signed big contracts expecting the cap to rise and it stayed flat. The new TV contract almost assures the cap will go up for at least the next few years. You have done a great job reining things in.  But this time make the exception like you did for the other guys and pay the man. Don't be filled with hubris and think you can just keep replacing one chess piece with another. This isn't chess, this is football with great players and a locker room with great chemistry. Part of that goes beyond the business side of the game. It lets our players know that if you bust your ass you will be rewarded and we will give you equal compensation for your skills. We not only assign you a value but we value you and want to pay you accordingly.  This isn't a precedence for everyone else to follow. This is paying a player who deserves it and will prove to be as good a deal on the defensive side as Cam was on the offensive side. He is going to be our best DT ever. I am looking at you Kris Jenkins......

The problem here is you assume KK Short would sign for anything less than the top DT contract in the league. Gettleman has made him a reasonable offer to make him a well paid defensive lineman for the Panthers. Short isn't interested and willing to wait it out. Him not being signed isn't just a Gettleman thing. It takes both parties involved to agree or not agree to a contract.  

[csx]

18 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

I think the Norman debacle left a bad taste in Short's mouth.

I think it left him with a taste for $$$

[therealmjl]

1 minute ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Name a team that has two pro bowl under tackles. 

Sure.

2017-2021 Carolina Panthers

[caatfan]

15 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Gettleman has made him a reasonable offer to make him a well paid defensive lineman for the Panthers.

I think the question is, how well paid would he be? Top 10? Has Gettleman made his best offer yet?

 

17 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

you assume KK Short would sign for anything less than the top DT contract in the league.

If he insists on being paid in the neighborhood of Cox and Suh, then I think it's all over but the shouting. Short will sign with some team that's willing to overpay for his services, and we'll be hoping that Butler can step in and be the same kind of player that we'll be losing.

[thefuzz]

I want KK on this team long term.

However, I want cap flexibility and continued consistent winning...history has proven that you can't overpay everyone and continue to win in this league.

We have never had a "franchise QB" on this roster, especially not one in his prime, making top 3 QB money.  Once you have that, you don't have to overpay other players that don't impact the game as much as the QB.

Again, I want KK here, but if DG thinks that it will hamstring us long term, let him play out this season, see what the market value is for him, and if it's still too steep, tag him, and let him walk in 2 seasons.  Sucks for him, but that's this is the NFL, not MLB.

[thefuzz]

38 minutes ago, caatfan said:

I think the question is, how well paid would he be? Top 10? Has Gettleman made his best offer yet?

 

If he insists on being paid in the neighborhood of Cox and Suh, then I think it's all over but the shouting. Short will sign with some team that's willing to overpay for his services, and we'll be hoping that Butler can step in and be the same kind of player that we'll be losing.

Yup.  You know who has to pay crazy money to non QB positions?  Teams with Eli Manning, Ryan Tannehill, and Sam Bradford/Carson Wentz under center.

If we didn't have Luke and TD, we would have paid him already, as he wouldn't be expendable, and he's not really, but KK doesn't win us 4 or 5 extra games every year....only Cam can do that.