Thoughts on Gettleman and KK Short...

[TheSpecialJuan]

19 minutes ago, pantherphan96 said:

Love KK, but would rather sign Trai, Norwell, and Star long-term instead of giving KK a Ndamukong Suh contract.

That may very well be the decision Gman has to make. It's tough but I don't see us re-signing Short. That money will go to others.

[caatfan]

15 minutes ago, shaqattaq said:

Big Vern will have that much more experience

And if another Big Vern is available when draft time rolls around, who knows? KK was a 'what, another DT?' pick himself.

[pantherj]

If we had an average or below QB, then I think we would have signed Norman, and we'd give KK what he wants as well. We'd be in a position where we had to have a loaded defense to win. The entire staff would be afraid of being fired, and they'd think of short term success to keep their jobs. Spend spend spend. Don't get fired now, to hell with the long tern.

Gettleman is the catbird seat. He knows we don't have to have a great defense to win. We all know that at this point. We can lose elite defensive players and replace them with good draft picks and keep winning. We have Cam Newton in his prime. We can tell anyone else on this team to hit the bricks if they want to much money, and still have a good season. The staff is not in danger, so they're thinking long term. RR just got a major extension, and everyone is expecting a winning season without Norman.

Which team will want to pay KK a fortune? Well look who took Norman. The Redskins. Who do they have at QB? Kirk Cousins. That makes sense. If we had Kirk at QB then we would have payed Norman. Look for a team with a mediocre QB to snatch up KK.

[CPantherKing]

4 hours ago, cardiaccat52 said:

The scenario the Panthers are in oddly resembles the Patriots in 2015-2016...almost same situations and similar outcomes have already started....

2015 - Patriots don't resign Darrelle Revis in Free Agency (2016 - Panthers let Josh Norman walk)

2016 - Patriots trade their best defensive lineman (Chandler Jones)...A lot of mention was because they couldn't afford to keep him along with other key pieces (2016 - Short not traded yet)

Like Short, Chandler was coming off his best season (12.5 sacks), and the Patriots that year spent high draft picks on defensive lineman as possible insurance knowing that there was a high probability they wouldn't resign Chandler (1st round = DT, 3rd round = DE, and 4th round = DE). 

Panthers used a 1st rounder on Butler. Again...somewhat of similar set of circumstances between the two teams. 

The Patriots also win the draft every year. Now winning the draft does not mean players talent level 3 to 5 years from now (which factors in playing time). Winning the draft in this sense is walking away with the most capital in the game for a given off season. The highest valued capital in the NFL is the draft pick. I know some will argue the name recognition of a pick due to face/playing time, but those individuals do not get it. They do not understand where the most value comes from for an NFL team.

The Patriots have drafted 36 players over the past 4 years. That averages out to 9 picks per year. The Panthers have 20 picks over that same period for 5 picks per year. Big difference when you could have 2 to 3 DLs to replace Chandler (some who have been in the system) versus the Panthers 1 DL that is a rookie. Same goes for the CB situation. Easier when you have a stable of 2 to 3 drafted CBs to replace Revis who have been in the system versus not having any CB to replace Norman and having to draft 3 rookie CBs to compensate.

Now, if the Panthers were able to start their street free agent CBs/DTs with confidence, then they would be doing well. Unfortunately, the Panthers do not have confidence in their young pick ups off the street over the years in Carrington Byndom, Teddy Williams, and Kyle Love to hold down the bulk of the playing time.

The Patriots do not rely on rookies to start or take a bulk of the playing time. The Panthers have been put in a position by the front office to throw rookies out on the field in year one to have a chance of winning over the past 3 years.

The Patriots also target key free agents and rent them out for a year or two. The Panthers rely on used up old players on their last leg like Charles Tillman, Jerricho Cotchery, Roman Harper, Jared Allen, Paul Soliai, Ted Ginn and Cortland Finnegan. The Patriots sign Darrell Revis, Chris Long, Brandon LaFell, Nate Washington, Donald Brown, LaGarrett Blount, Jabaal Sheard, Brandon Browner, Patrick Chung, Will Smith, Danny Amendola, Michael Jenkins, and Adrian Wilson.

Most of these signings are 1 to 2 year rentals to boost up or patch up an area of weakness the Patriots are planning to develop young rookie talent at for the year. The point is the Patriots spend money to accomplish this key part to a championship team. The Broncos and many (if not all) of the Super Bowl winners over the past decade spend money in free agency or make key trades to leverage the capital they have built up in the draft to accomplish this key component of a championship team.

You can clearly see the Patriots are playing the long term game and reap the benefits. They do not lean on players to carry the team for 4+ years while neglecting the rest of the team. The Panthers are playing the crutch game where you hook everything to a group of players and ride them as long as you can before the wheels fall off.

Do not even compare the Patriots plan to the Panthers. Especially, if all you want to compare is lost starters and rookie replacements. Look at the draft, free agency, and then elevation on the depth chart - not just losing a starter.

And at the very least, the Panthers better get back value for KK if they do not plan on keeping him. The Patriots know 2 years ahead of time what they are going to do with the roster. Seems like the Panthers fly by the seat of their pants at any given moment. If a team fails to get value for their young talent when they know they are not in the plans, then they have failed to maintain the teams future. If a team plans on a young player being part of the future and they walk away from the team at the last minute, then that front office has failed to maintain the future of the team again.

When the Panthers sign their Peyton Manning, Demarcus Ware, Percy Harvin, Michael Bennett, Emmanuel Sanders, Anquan Boldin, Randy Moss, Darrell Revis, or Wes Welker in free agency I will be thrilled. Has not happened in 4 off seasons.

When the Panthers walk away with a draft of over 8 players picked I will be thrilled. Has not happened over the last 4 off seasons.

Until then the odds will not be stacked in the Panthers favor, and fans will have to rely on the core players of the team that were here prior to 2013 to continue carrying them to victory in spite of the front office and the coaching. Lucky for you all the Panthers hit the jackpot with the combo of Cam, Olsen, Kalil, Stewart, Kuechly and Davis. In 2013, there were 12 players on that list. In 2015, there were 7 players. Now there are 6 for 2016, and soon to be 3 by 2018. The only player to come close to this list of core players carrying the team to victories over the past 4 off seasons is KK. The team better resign him and they better have some of these other young players step up fast.

There is a reason all of you have so much hope for the trades that are made. You know it needs to succeed - especially with so few draft picks each year. The last big trade, which has led to a lot of the Panthers success was Greg Olsen. At this rate, the Panthers will be lucky to hit on another trade for an entire decade since Greg Olsen was acquired.

[rico6]

Called it on draftday, one of Star/Short will not be resigned. But if Butler shows and prove, then Getts comes out on top. 

 

I really don't see KK being resigned, ESPECIALLY with Cox's albatross of a contract. So annoying. And its nigh time the fans come around to it.

[csx]

It's probably been said but it's not the worst thing to have him play under his current contract. Maybe he plays well but not like a superstar and can be signed for a reasonable contract after the season. Buying high isn't a great strategy.

[tiger7_88]

8 hours ago, nctarheel0619 said:

Except the difference between us and them, they have Super Bowl rings.  We have that lovely shitting of the bed this team did in February.  

 

What does the Patriots winning a Super Bowl in 2014 and Carolina losing one in 2015 have to do with future roster decisions by either team?

[tiger7_88]

8 hours ago, nctarheel0619 said:

this doesn't look as good

In other words, all you care about are appearances and not the actual impact on a roster.

Like Shield said... shitposter.

[tiger7_88]

6 hours ago, nctarheel0619 said:

So, in the military our standards and core values were "Integrity first. Service before self. Excellence in all we do."  I still hold myself to those standards to this day.  Sorry you don't understand that.    

Please don't use the military to justify your shitty attitude.

[tiger7_88]

6 hours ago, nctarheel0619 said:

Oh, so you just ignore the military part of it huh?  You're literally making excuses to make yourself make sense.  I hold myself to those standards, since I was in the Military.  Sorry, I'm not sorry you aren't impressed.  Let it go dude.  

So, using your military analogy, no service member completes an honorable military career unless they earn the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Right?

[tiger7_88]

6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Sorry, but I'm not convinced "core military values" correlate with being a whiny b--ch of a sports fan.

They don't.

And as a veteran myself who has always considered it my privilege to serve my country (not my country's privilege to have me wear the uniform), I swear to god I really despise the former military members that believe the entire country should bow and scrape to them just because they completed a term of military service.

 

[tiger7_88]

5 hours ago, MountainHeel66 said:

I respect military as much as the next guy and more than most but that's a bullshit approach to being a sports fan. First off, not even "military excellence" is perfect and 100% victorious, never makes mistakes and poor decisions etc. if that's what you took from it then you missed the point BIG TIME. Their values also involve lives being on the line and global stability, that's FAR from what sports are about.

If you don't consider what the Panthers did last year to be excellence then there is no one on the face of this earth that can help you. We became an elite force in the NFL IN ONE SEASON. After constantly being written off and undersold by every media outlet we somehow stuck it to every single one of them and won 2 championships in the process, the NFC South (for the 3rd year in a row) and the NFC. No one here is happy we lost the super bowl but poo happens and even the best laid plans falter, it doesn't mean that you use "military code" to call a team a failure for having one of the best seasons any team has ever had. 

Lighten up Francis. Life is a game that no one gets out of alive. Military service and striving for excellence are amazing things. But you also have to be able to seperate yourself from that and objectively look at what's going on around you. Excellence and perfection are not mutually exclusive. And, in fact, the military leaders who are unwilling to admit they are fallible and who have to be perfect are the ones that get people killed. This team did incredible things, love that and accept that maybe it's because we were doing all of the right things and it just wasn't our day on that ONE DAY.

[the greatest]

3 hours ago, shaqattaq said:

The franchise tag for  a DT is $13.6 mil. This will go up a bit next season (thanks Fletch), but why not get KK for $1.5 mil this year, and only risk having to franchise him for next season, probably for less than he'd get in a long term deal deal now. Don't misunderstand, I hope we line KK up more many seasons to come, but G-man is holding all the cards. in 2 years, Big Vern will have that much more experience, KK will be 29, and we'll be having the same discussion.

Im not sure but you were agreeing with me right?

[vorbis]

my thoughts about the Panthers roster are as such: a significant measure of consistent NFL team success is the quality of player that moves on from the team. so long as good players keep coming through the door via the draft, players like Norman and Short can move in free agency, and the roster remains strong and flexible against the cap.

I haven't seen any indications that the Gettleman/Gregory/Koncz/Rivera partnership has lost the way with bringing in talented players. quite the opposite, in fact. draft classes keep getting better and better, and contribute early (even players that are considered "projects" to some degree). UFAs regularly make the team and play significant roles on the team, sometimes in their first season. free agents brought in are usually very effective in specific and defined roles, and the screwups on that front have been very minor in scope. 

the presence of Butler and the commitment in this draft to bringing in CBs with draft picks this year after losing Norman, to me these things represent continuity in decision-making and roster structure. which, in many ways, has more value than one or two players that are among the league's most talented at their position. that's even accounting for the fact that the NFL will always be a player's league. it just allows you to implement a style of play and remain flexible to address roster issues that come up, be them injuries or contract whathaveyous.