Shula!!!

[Mistuh Jones]

An elite QB makes a lot of OC's in this league look good IMHO. Cam is making him look good. He's still Jeff Bowden to me lmao . I know only my Seminole fans on here will get that reference 

[panthers55]

47 minutes ago, Mistuh Jones said:

An elite QB makes a lot of OC's in this league look good IMHO. Cam is making him look good. He's still Jeff Bowden to me lmao . I know only my Seminole fans on here will get that reference 

It works both ways.  Players make the coaches look good and the coaches can make the players look better than they would be otherwise.  Everyone agreed before the beginning of the season that our offense was devoid of many weapons yet we had the number 1 offense in the league.  When Benjamin went down, Shula and the rest of the coaches totally revamped the offense to emphasize the running game when they felt the WR group was not that great.  Fortunately the coaches did a great job getting the most out of the players we had, and several players like Cam far exceeded expectations and made a huge difference.

Truth is giving credit to players without acknowledging the coaches or vice versa just demonstrates a poster's lack of understanding about how NFL offenses operate in general and ours in particular.  Shula has taught Cam everything he knows about NFl offenses and built the offense around him.  Cam has rewarded that faith in him by working hard to master the offense and lead the team on his back.  Shula was smart enough to hitch his wagon to Cam and it has paid off for both of them.

[Mistuh Jones]

the offense in general has benefited GREATLY from Cam's calls at the LOS. maybe I downplayed the significance of film study with the both of them. But I still wouldn't call this dude elite by any stretch. Not yet at least. 

[top dawg]

Of course coaches can make players look great and vice versa. The issue is always to what degree does the greatness balance in favor of a particular player or coach.

In my opinion a clearer measure is to look at the entire body of work of each as compared to their peers. Not only that, but the appraisal and acknowledgement of their peers as well. From that view, Cam gets decidedly more credit.

[davos]

A good OC is one of the hardest things to come by IMO.

Off the top of my head, considering our style of play, there aren't many I can think of I can instantly identify as good fits for us here so I'm cool with Shula.   Nothing indicates a Pep Hamilton or Adam Gase would be any better here.  

[CRA]

Shula now ranks as the best OC in Panther history.

it is what it is.  Give Cam credit or whatever but that is where he sits.  

[Razeyfingers]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Shula now ranks as the best OC in Panther history.

it is what it is.  Give Cam credit or whatever but that is where he sits.  

There are more ridiculous things that have happened right?

 

I mean remember when you swore none of the players who signed those big contracts after the lockout would take paycuts?

 

. . . orrrr better yet remember when 5 years ago you said Smitty would be done in two years?

[top dawg]

8 hours ago, CRA said:

Shula now ranks as the best OC in Panther history.

it is what it is.  Give Cam credit or whatever but that is where he sits.  

So Cam is the afterthought in this equation...?  

Gimme a break!

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

So Cam is the afterthought in this equation...?  

Gimme a break!

Cam is hardly an afterthought, Shula has built the offense around Cam and Cam is doing a great job mastering it. Shula couldn't run this offense nearly as effective with anyone besides Cam. He would have to change up what we do for the new quarterback.  It is a symbiotic relationship. They are both integral to the other. At least for now. I could see a time when Cam can run this offense without Shula like Brady does in New England. He isn't there yet but he continues to grow.

[CarolinaCoolin]

Since no one has said it I will.

Cam's audibles at the LOS are plays given to him from Shula. Cam gets three plays radioed in and at LOS he choose/changes the offense into the right play given the formation. Cam isn't going into the play book and changing the play completely. It was still a Shula play call.

 

second, Shula gets a lot of unfair critism thrown his way because of poor player execution. Whether that be oline blocking, receivers not catching the ball, etc. The only difference between top OC's in the league and the others is player execution. The 2015 panthers and Cam executed perfectly. Thus Shula looked really good. Players don't execute and you have the usual suspects in game day threads blasting play calling. 

One example about this is a 4th down bootleg pass to Olsen. I forget which game it was but Greg had the defense beat but Cam sailed the pass and it was broken up. If Cam hits the throw it's a new set of downs. But he missed so it's shulas fault for not running it. 

 

The truth is we as fans don't get the full picture. We see a play one time for the 3-8 seconds it's ran and pretty much never again. In the moment it's a lot easier to say it's a play calling thing instead of seeing it as player execution problem.

[iamhubby1]

7 hours ago, CarolinaCoolin said:

Since no one has said it I will.

Cam's audibles at the LOS are plays given to him from Shula. Cam gets three plays radioed in and at LOS he choose/changes the offense into the right play given the formation. Cam isn't going into the play book and changing the play completely. It was still a Shula play call.

 

second, Shula gets a lot of unfair critism thrown his way because of poor player execution. Whether that be oline blocking, receivers not catching the ball, etc. The only difference between top OC's in the league and the others is player execution. The 2015 panthers and Cam executed perfectly. Thus Shula looked really good. Players don't execute and you have the usual suspects in game day threads blasting play calling. 

One example about this is a 4th down bootleg pass to Olsen. I forget which game it was but Greg had the defense beat but Cam sailed the pass and it was broken up. If Cam hits the throw it's a new set of downs. But he missed so it's shulas fault for not running it. 

 

The truth is we as fans don't get the full picture. We see a play one time for the 3-8 seconds it's ran and pretty much never again. In the moment it's a lot easier to say it's a play calling thing instead of seeing it as player execution problem.

 

So...Cam comes to the line. He sees what the D has to offer. He either runs the play, or audiles' to another play. If it works, it is Cam. If it doesn't work it is Shula??

 

I want every one to know...Cam is the boss. He has full control at the line. He may not be at the Brady level yet...but he is getting there.

 

Believe it or not...he has full control of this Offense. He knows what he wants to do. He knows how he wants to do it. He can Hard count you, or he can Lull you to sleep. But it is increasingly more difficult to confuse him. The main theme here is...he is only going to get better. And that thought ought to scare the pants off you.

 

So yeah...if you don't think Cam and Shula are a great team...you may have to rethink your fandom.

[CRA]

On June 24, 2016 at 8:10 PM, top dawg said:

So Cam is the afterthought in this equation...?  

Gimme a break!

Nowhere did I say or imply that.

Shula simply put gets the title of best OC in Panther history.  Cam was only mention in regard to IF you want to put the focus on Cam (the anti Shula crowd) as the reason....Shula still gets the title. 

Shula isn't exciting.  Given the talent he has now....he is good. And talent is the key for the overwhelming majority of coaches at this level

[panthers55]

It is funny that Chud got so much credit for being a great creative OC he parlayed it into a head coaching job. Most folks talked about how Chud made this offense not Shula. Fas t forward to 2015 and we have arguably the worse receivers in the league and a suspect O line  and lo and behold we lead the league in offense and scoring.  If this were still Chud every one would hanging on his nuts and talking about how he is the best OC in the league. Because it is Shula he has to keep proving himself as if last year was a fluke.  Instead look at the correlation between our talent and our production. It is not coincidental that as Cam and the rest of the team have improved their offensive skill and the overal offensive talent has improved around Cam so has the offensive output.  Shula has to have pieces to work with and as they have improved so has the offense.  His biggest accomplishment? Turning Cam in one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Of the 5 quarterbacks taken in the first 12 picks of the 2011 draft. Cam is the only one still starting. 

[CRA]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

It is funny that Chud got so much credit for being a great creative OC he parlayed it into a head coaching job. Most folks talked about how Chud made this offense not Shula. Fas t forward to 2015 and we have arguably the worse receivers in the league and a suspect O line  and lo and behold we lead the league in offense and scoring.  If this were still Chud every one who would hanging on his nuts and talking about how he is the best OC in the league. Because it is Shula he has to keep proving himself as if last year was a fluke.  Instead look at the correlation between our talent and our production. It is not coincidental that as Cam and the rest of the team has improved their offensive skill and the offensive talent has improved around Cam so has the offensive output.  Shula has to have pieces to work with and as they have improved so has the offense.  His biggest accomplishment? Turning Cam in one of the best quarterbacks in the league. Of the 5 quarterbacks taken in the first 12 picks of the 2011draft. Cam is the only one still starting. 

Chud was entertaining.  Shula isn't less creative.  Creative somehow gets confused as better

Give them both a a strong unit...I'll take Shula.