Gettledaddy says agents can't scare him

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Why do you say that? Everyone talks about Butler's athleticism. I think I remember @Jeremy Igo saying something to the effect that Butler's first step is as explosive as he's seen. I don't think that Butler was drafted to be a stationary space eater (not that Star was either).  From what I've been reading, Butler has game more similar to KK's than Star's.

On an off note, injuries may have stunted Star's development a bit. If he can sty healthy, don't be surprised if he's in the backfield a little more this year than in the past.

Butler had a grand total of 5 sacks in 4 years playing in CUSA

From what I have read, people simply want Butler to be insurance and leverage for KK.  Butler isn't the penetrating/pass rusher KK is and is better equipped to assume and aid in Star's less sexy role. 

I am not downplaying Butler as I think Star's importance has been undervalued of late.  But ever since he was drafted I have disagreed with the Butler/KK references 

[top dawg]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

Butler had a grand total of 5 sacks in 4 years playing in CUSA

From what I have read, people simply want Butler to be insurance and leverage for KK.  Butler isn't the penetrating/pass rusher KK is and is better equipped to assume and aid in Star's less sexy role. 

CRA, one of the Panthers' determinations in drafting Butler (not that they wouldn't have if this wasn't the case) is that La Tech used three man fronts which allowed Butler to be double teamed (with pretty much impunity). Being that the Panthers use four man fronts, the theory is that this will lend to Butler being in one-on-one situations markedly more than he was in college---markedly more.  Moreover, when you throw in Star, Short, Soliai, Ealy, CJ, or whoever else in the mix on the D-line, opposing DCs won't be able to double Butler all game.

[Navy_football]

13 hours ago, stirs said:

Man, was Butler the right pick or what?

Didn't another GM draft Luke while Beason was still on the team? Coming off an achilles injury, but still the team's defensive leader. 

[d-dave]

On one hand, I have no problem with players trying to get the most money they can.  KK needs to understand that he has a couple of choices:

1. Get paid very well, maybe not Fletcher Cox well, and remain on a Super Bowl Contender.

2. Play out as well as he can this final year and look for the big money on the FA market, and possibly end up with a bad team with loads of cap room.

KK is going to have to figure that one out, does he want to remain on a contender, where good dl play helps him be successful.  Or he can certainly chase the money, have to be the focal point all on his own.  Sometimes, leaving the team where you had your most success isn't the best idea...

Other times, it's great.

[Soul Rebel]

12 hours ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

That's all well and good and easy to talk about on the internet but what if KK and his agent want money out of the atmosphere and don't even want to come close to meeting in the middle with Gettlemen? It's easy to blame a deal not getting done on the GM, but if the player and his agent want to hurt the team with the money they want and won't negotiate, then they can go somewhere else. A team like Dallas, Philly, Oakland or Washington that always overspends on players and never wins anything. We will be grear with or without KK. We will have a great defensive line with or without KK. It's up to him if he wants to play for a winner or get ridiculous money and play for a mediocre team his entire career

 

Without question, I'm not mad at DG if KK's camp asks for the moon on this deal.  If he comes in asking for $18-20MM/yr + a ton up front guaranteed, then I would hope that we franchise him for '17 and then if he still wants an astronomical amount in '18, show him the door and say thanks for playing.

Like I originally said, I think we are in the "posturing" stages of these negotiations and each side is setting their respective expectations.  I don't think Short is the kind of player that doesn't want to win and cause off-the-field problems.  He reported to camp and isn't being a diva making his contract negotiations a huge public relations nightmare. I too think that Dave wants him back and will do everything possible to retain this talented player. 

 

[Catufb85]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Butler had a grand total of 5 sacks in 4 years playing in CUSA

From what I have read, people simply want Butler to be insurance and leverage for KK.  Butler isn't the penetrating/pass rusher KK is and is better equipped to assume and aid in Star's less sexy role. 

I am not downplaying Butler as I think Star's importance has been undervalued of late.  But ever since he was drafted I have disagreed with the Butler/KK references 

Butler isn't designed to be a pass rushing DT.  He is a Hog Mollie in the trenches designed to take up space, get double teamed to allow LB's to flow and in our situation KK to be single teamed.  That is what Star does.  Butler was drafted as insurance because GettleFather knows there isn't a way to pay both KK and Star.  Being as KK and Butler have different playing styles that compliment each other (Like KK and Star do now), my vision is that Gettleman is going to sign KK and we will probably lose Star which will give Butler a year to learn the system.  Star is amazingly undervalued to the media because of his numbers, but he effects everyone else's.  Any team would pay Star as a highly valued DT if something doesn't workout with us after this year.  

P.S. Pay KK! That's why you let Norman go, because you value your front 7.

[top dawg]

23 minutes ago, Catufb85 said:

Butler isn't designed to be a pass rushing DT.  He is a Hog Mollie in the trenches designed to take up space, get double teamed to allow LB's to flow and in our situation KK to be single teamed.  That is what Star does.  Butler was drafted as insurance because GettleFather knows there isn't a way to pay both KK and Star.  Being as KK and Butler have different playing styles that compliment each other (Like KK and Star do now), my vision is that Gettleman is going to sign KK and we will probably lose Star which will give Butler a year to learn the system.  Star is amazingly undervalued to the media because of his numbers, but he effects everyone else's.  Any team would pay Star as a highly valued DT if something doesn't workout with us after this year.  

P.S. Pay KK! That's why you let Norman go, because you value your front 7.

I think that it's highly presumptuous for you to say that "Butler isn't designed to be  pass rushing DT." As noted earlier, Butler was in a three man front his college career. This allowed teams to double him all the time. The Panthers use four man fronts which will make for markedly more one-on-one situations. Plus, defenses will have to pick their poison, and just won't be able to double Butler all game long.  There is a reason why Gettleman and others have noted Butler's athleticism and the fact that men of his size aren't supposed to be able to move like he does.  The Panthers are developing him to be more than just a space-eater that commands double teams.

[caatfan]

15 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I think that it's highly presumptuous for you to say that "Butler isn't designed to be  pass rushing DT." As noted earlier, Butler was in a three man front his college career. This allowed teams to double him all the time. The Panthers use four man fronts which will make for markedly more one-on-one situations. Plus, defenses will have to pick their poison, and just won't be able to double Butler all game long.  There is a reason why Gettleman and others have noted Butler's athleticism and the fact that men of his size aren't supposed to be able to move like he does.  The Panthers are developing him to be more than just a space-eater that commands double teams.

I agree. He's quick and athletic. Seems like just the kind of DT to get in the backfield and disrupt like Short does. 

[Worm]

The biggest issue for me is that whether you call it a "window" or not, we definitely have a good/great team right NOW.  And if Short is not signed and using up that current cap space, losing out on a year of Norman with this current team's ability to make another super bowl run will sting.  Bad.

[top dawg]

6 minutes ago, Worm said:

The biggest issue for me is that whether you call it a "window" or not, we definitely have a good/great team right NOW.  And if Short is not signed and using up that current cap space, losing out on a year of Norman with this current team's ability to make another super bowl run will sting.  Bad.

Sure it will sting, but it won't be as bad as the sting of down seasons and desperation that come from having to continually rob Peter to pay Paul and the falling and ripping off of Band-Aids that comes with it.

[CPantherKing]

Is this where I say told you so? Gettleman shines some light on what is going on. Looks like some frustration. There is a large divide between business and family with this team, and the wounds just get deeper every off-season. This team could be great since 2013, but Gettleman has held them back from greatness and realizing what would have been a dynasty. You will see the truth come out. It always does. Ask the players and agents off the record when you meet them outside of team activities. Just ask. They are very frustrated with battling their front office, and the players do believe they have a window.

Players/agents look at it as though they have a window.

Front office refuses to believe in the window and the players are just a cog to oil and replace.

Gettleman keeps leaning on Hurney's work while chipping away at that foundation a little every year. It is only a matter of time before he over extends his ego and it breaks with nothing else to fall back on in terms of the players necessary to win a championship.

The Panthers won big with Cam, Luke, Olsen, Kalil, Stewart, and Davis. Davis, Kalil, Olsen, and Stewart will be gone soon. That will leave Cam and Luke to carry the team with no apparent player to fill the roles left by Smith, Olsen, Kalil, Stewart, Davis, Hardy, or Norman. The closest the Panthers have to any of them is KB, and he had a shaky rookie season catching the ball, and a season where he had a major injury.

What will the Panthers be left with from the past 4 off seasons to build the team on for the future? They need to pay some of these players unless the plan is to run with rookies and retreads every season until all of Hurney's players are old and gone.

[Moorgan]

19 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Ask the players and agents off the record when you meet them outside of team activities. Just ask. They are very frustrated with battling their front office, and the players do believe they have a window.

Do you have any first hand knowledge of this or are you just assuming? If so, details. If not, why are you so negative?

[Major wRecktum]

22 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Is this where I say told you so? Gettleman shines some light on what is going on. Looks like some frustration. There is a large divide between business and family with this team, and the wounds just get deeper every off-season. This team could be great since 2013, but Gettleman has held them back from greatness and realizing what would have been a dynasty. You will see the truth come out. It always does. Ask the players and agents off the record when you meet them outside of team activities. Just ask. They are very frustrated with battling their front office, and the players do believe they have a window.

Players/agents look at it as though they have a window.

Front office refuses to believe in the window and the players are just a cog to oil and replace.

Gettleman keeps leaning on Hurney's work while chipping away at that foundation a little every year. It is only a matter of time before he over extends his ego and it breaks with nothing else to fall back on in terms of the players necessary to win a championship.

The Panthers won big with Cam, Luke, Olsen, Kalil, Stewart, and Davis. Davis, Kalil, Olsen, and Stewart will be gone soon. That will leave Cam and Luke to carry the team with no apparent player to fill the roles left by Smith, Olsen, Kalil, Stewart, Davis, Hardy, or Norman. The closest the Panthers have to any of them is KB, and he had a shaky rookie season catching the ball, and a season where he had a major injury.

What will the Panthers be left with from the past 4 off seasons to build the team on for the future? They need to pay some of these players unless the plan is to run with rookies and retreads every season until all of Hurney's players are old and gone.

You are an idiot...

 

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Is this where I say told you so? Gettleman shines some light on what is going on. Looks like some frustration. There is a large divide between business and family with this team, and the wounds just get deeper every off-season. This team could be great since 2013, but Gettleman has held them back from greatness and realizing what would have been a dynasty. You will see the truth come out. It always does. Ask the players and agents off the record when you meet them outside of team activities. Just ask. They are very frustrated with battling their front office, and the players do believe they have a window.

Players/agents look at it as though they have a window.

Front office refuses to believe in the window and the players are just a cog to oil and replace.

Gettleman keeps leaning on Hurney's work while chipping away at that foundation a little every year. It is only a matter of time before he over extends his ego and it breaks with nothing else to fall back on in terms of the players necessary to win a championship.

The Panthers won big with Cam, Luke, Olsen, Kalil, Stewart, and Davis. Davis, Kalil, Olsen, and Stewart will be gone soon. That will leave Cam and Luke to carry the team with no apparent player to fill the roles left by Smith, Olsen, Kalil, Stewart, Davis, Hardy, or Norman. The closest the Panthers have to any of them is KB, and he had a shaky rookie season catching the ball, and a season where he had a major injury.

What will the Panthers be left with from the past 4 off seasons to build the team on for the future? They need to pay some of these players unless the plan is to run with rookies and retreads every season until all of Hurney's players are old and gone.

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