On Peppers...

[Pantherpike]

First off, this is NOT a 'screw Pep' thread. I like Peppers, I like his skills and I think he tries to get to the QB.

This thread is on the strategy of coaches/GM's on keeping him for the price for what he brings TO THIS DEFENSIVE SCHEME. That's the key, the scheme we run and how he fits.

My take (after 2 games...hope it changes-fingers crossed) is that if you don't scheme to get mega-pressure on the opposing QB and don't give Pep help to do that then why on Earth would you pay someone 17 million a year (or whatever he's getting) to so something that a NFL player minimum would also give you?

Once again, this isn't a knock on Pep. In the past, he had Jenkins and Rucker to force teams to adjust in certain ways. Now they have no 'adjusting'. Just put 2 on Pep, or put one on him with a RB to backup and he is effectively out of the game. Hell, I hate to say it, but we could get that for the vet minimum.

So....back to the original question. Fox and Meeks KNEW what the scheme was going to be. Did they think that Pep would, IN AND OF HIMSELF, generate the needed pressure without the talent on the line with him or without the creative pressure defensive calls (ala Philly)? Did they think he would generate enough pressure to allow the defensive backs to utilize the Cover 2? We all know (or most of us) that Cover 2 works, or works best, when the opposing QB doesn't have ALL DAY to pick apart the ZONE. It's a freaking ZONE, you can't let QB's sit back and wait to see a crease.

So what we have now is a zone defense that allows opposing quarterbacks pretty much all day to pick it apart. Was ANYONE surprised that they consistently got those 15 yard pass plays? Why have we always given up the 15 yard pass plays? I don't get 'paid' to be a defensive guru in the NFL, but I find it sad to say that I could, without all the experience they have, get the same results today and last week. Hell, I'd take the playbook and close my eyes and randomly pick a play and do just as good. We received how many punts today? I think I saw Captain out there TWICE all game. Sheesh.

We have an entire game of Eagle's masterful defensive playcalling to COPY. Why not freaking copy it. Everyone talks about the awesome defense of the Eagles and in the same breath how they lost so many playmakers. Didn't look so bad last week did they?

Be creative Fox, be creative Meeks. Rushing 4 and letting one safety roam close to the line is not a defense. It's not a blitz either although some here must assume that it is...

[Pantherpike]

Oh, and before anyone brings up the Eagles/Saints game, I know what the score was. Fact is, the Saints have a great QB. A great one. And apparently they are smart enough to watch game tape and adjust. I just wish our coaches had that ability.

*for example, when the Eagle's were blitzing every single play, it would have been smart for us to call one of those dump-passes to Dwill like we did today with some success. Five step drop pass plays when the opponent is consistently blitzing is just stupid.

[robtrox0]

Fox and the entire coaching staff motto is "stupid is as stupid does"

[natty]

I was actually surprised to see a good bit of blitzes today. But overall I agree.

What really gets me is Hurney's interview on Pacman where he just said over and over 'we don't let good players go' when asked about Peppers. In part I agree, but at a certain point you have to look at what's best for the team. Hurney should have known that tagging Pep was going to be inevitable and been proactive about it. Fox's scheme has ALWAYS been about strong d line play but over the years have let it slip away to nothing. Fox and Hurney have set themselves up for this. They put themselves in a position to HAVE to tag Pep because there where no better options(which in turn forced them to give Jake that contract). Really my only complaint about Fox and Hurney is that they have a philosophy that they simply won't break no matter the circumstances.

[StartMattMoore]

Peppers needs to go too, he isn't doing anything to earn all that damn money!

[thennek]

The Panthers arguable had the best d-lines in the NFL in 2002 - 2005 when they had a young Rucker, a young Peppers, Buckner, and young Jenkins. The replaced Buckner with Kemo. But, they never replaced Jenkins and they really have not replaced Rucker either. Yet, they continue to run a scheme which needs pressure from the d-line to be successful.

The Panthers mortgaged the future when they drafted both J. Stewart and Otah in 2008 1st round, and then again when they gave away the 2010 1st round pick with Brown. While these players were needed, we needed a replacement for Jenkins more.

[natty]

^^^^ indeed. Change the personnel or the scheme - neither has been done.

[Pantherpike]

The Panthers arguable had the best d-lines in the NFL in 2002 - 2005 when they had a young Rucker, a young Peppers, Buckner, and young Jenkins. The replaced Buckner with Kemo. But, they never replaced Jenkins and they really have not replaced Rucker either. Yet, they continue to run a scheme which needs pressure from the d-line to be successful.

The Panthers mortgaged the future when they drafted both J. Stewart and Otah in 2008 1st round, and then again when they gave away the 2010 1st round pick with Brown. While these players were needed, we needed a replacement for Jenkins more.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. We're playing a defense that would be awesome with Rucker, Jenkins and Peppers. Problem is we only have one of those guys now and NO ONE we have now can compare to the other two. Couple that with little blitzing (I still can't fathom how people are saying we blitzed alot today...a roaming safety is not a blitz!!) and we get no pressure. To Meeks a 5th person close to the line must be a blitz. If you want to see what a BLITZ is look at last weeks game tape. 7+ players rushing the QB guaranteeing that he has under 4 seconds to get rid of the ball, coupled by man coverage and bumping off the line will work sometimes. Rushing 5 every now and then is not 'we blitzed alot' at all. That's laughable.

[PantherPhann89]

Yes yes yes you're all 100% right. Our d scheme suck. No pressure, whatsoever, corners that play 10 - 15 yrds off wrs and attack after the catch. Corners that cover from the outside and allow the catch on inside slant or in rte. It ain't the players, we got good players, its coaching. It's clear to me now that it's Fox, our d looks just like it did last year. I was expecting it to look more like Indy, aggressive pressure. We have the right players to bring pressure but they aren't being used. Peppers, Brown, Davis and Taylor. Blitz all 4 of them, on the same play, at least one is gonna get through the gap. Like Pantherpike said, I can call better plays than our d is running. And in addition, I like Rosario, and i think that he is being misused also. We should be using him like the Atl is using Gonzo. Change is what we need and Fox won't change a thing. I'm an embarrassed Panther Fan thats now on the Fire Fox wagon. I'd keep Jake untill I got or groomed my starter and make Jake my bckup for the remainder of his contract.

[King Taharga]

noone on the defense was loafing more than Peppers. I just watched it again and if anyone here thinks he is gonna have 8 sacks this season you are an idiot. And he couldnt stop the run if his life depended on it. He has no motivation to play, he is getting paid regardless and he doesnt wanna be here. He loafs of the field and when he comes on the field. He plays with absolutely NO fire or passion, and you can bash me or flame me all you wish, but he is ready to be gone from Carolina and doesnt care in the least. He is playing not to get injured this year and do enough to get by. What a waste of talent. I'll be glad to see him go. Ron Meeks defensive guru? Yeah, Indy was ALWAYS known for there stellar defense. Idiots. Although I was happy with the way the O-line and the offense played today, but with Peppers and our defense we are gonna have to score 30pts a game at least if we expect to win.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Main point is......our cb's couldn't cover for more then two seconds,julius or any other de is not going to get pressure with our cb's playing 10 yards off allowing easy out routes and curls there is not way our cb's can break on the ball playing that far off.

i would really worry about abraham if i'm a falcons fan who got owned by gross even when jake took 5 to 6 sec in the pocket he was ineffective except for one play.Julius had no chance with the out and curl routes the falcons ran

[Kevin Greene]

Two million cap dollars so far.

7 tackles, 1 sack.