Is Kawann Short holding out?

[Khaki Lackey]

2 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

This is in response to the low ball offer Gettleman tossed out. Very disrespectful to any player in contract talks when the GM wants to make it appear that they are not a key player to the team. You cannot push for loyalty to the team while not being loyal to the players. Not sure Gettleman will ever understand this. Same song and dance, but this will be much uglier following what Gettleman did to Norman. KK knows what to expect and will leverage it now. Either Gettleman wants him and pays him big (unlikely), or Gettleman will deem him a distraction that does not want to be on the team (expected).

Gettleman becomes the team distraction. (probably has piles of money stacked up on his desk that he refuses to spend so he can admire it every day).

KK gets a trade and sign deal. Bye KK. Get paid.

It's business. The Gettleman culture.

What figure do you have in mind for what a competent GM should pay KK?

[Guest]

Are we really surprised that Kawann might hold out for a new contract? 

I'm not. He broke out last year and had a huge year. This year he stands to earn around $1.4 million, which is a nice sum to the average person, but to an NFL player it is peanuts. As fans we might expect loyalty from him to turn up and play hard for this team irrespective of the amount on his pay cheque. I think that Gettleman, Rivera and co would want the same from him. But unlike previous seasons, he's no longer a player looking to make his mark or trying to earn a starting position, this time he is coming off a big year and has established himself as our star defensive tackle. So obviously he wants to get that first big contract as soon as possible so he has financial security heading into the season. I don't blame him for that because what happens if he injures his knee in practice like Benji did. Would he still get his long term big pay day, or would he be given a more conservative offer like a one year prove it deal? 

I suspect he would be offered the latter. Now if he recovers from his injury and comebacks and plays like a star, he will still get paid despite his injury. But if he doesn't recover from his injury and his career is derailed by this hypothetical knee injury he would kiss goodbye to that huge pay day (either with us or someone else). So there is an element of risk for Kawann turning up to training camp and continuing to play under his rookie contract after breaking out and establishing himself as a star defensive tackle. Now Gettleman might want his players to be loyal and play hard irrespective of the number on their pay cheque, and those that don't, can leave. Likewise, he might want his players to be loyal and take a hometown discount or sign an extension under his terms, and those that don't, can leave. Now that approach might work with some players, but others will push back, and perhaps Kawann is going to be one of those players that pushes back. What Gettleman does in return is anyone's guess...

At the end of the day I can't blame him for wanting to get an extension done before he takes to the field again. He has played under a second round contract for three years and has one year left worth $1.4 million. That is peanuts. If he gets hurt and his career is derailed he stands to lose a LOT of money. If he gets paid like a premier defensive tackle, we've already seen Marcell Dareus and Gerald McCoy get $95 million extensions from the teams that drafted them. If he gets paid like a decent defensive tackle, we've seen Geno Atkins get $53 million from the Bengals and Tyrone Crawford get $45 million from the Cowboys. Regardless of what tier he is in, that's a LOT of money, and a lot more than what he stands to risk losing if he holds out. Some may see him as being greedy, and perhaps that is the case. But I'd like to think he (and/or his agent) is simply being smart and making a business decision to get paid now, rather than continue to take a huge risk and play under his rookie contract.

[Ricky Spanish]

2 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

This is in response to the low ball offer Gettleman tossed out. Very disrespectful to any player in contract talks when the GM wants to make it appear that they are not a key player to the team. You cannot push for loyalty to the team while not being loyal to the players. Not sure Gettleman will ever understand this. Same song and dance, but this will be much uglier following what Gettleman did to Norman. KK knows what to expect and will leverage it now. Either Gettleman wants him and pays him big (unlikely), or Gettleman will deem him a distraction that does not want to be on the team (expected).

Gettleman becomes the team distraction. (probably has piles of money stacked up on his desk that he refuses to spend so he can admire it every day).

KK gets a trade and sign deal. Bye KK. Get paid.

It's business. The Gettleman culture.

If it wasn't obvious before, it is clear as day now.

This dude is a troll. He's usually much more subtle and very very good at baiting, but this one was more obvious IMO... He's good. Damn good at trolling. I applaud his commitment. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CoastalCat said:

I remember the four years of poo that resulted when we decided to pay everybody. 

I like the current system, even if it makes me nervous from time to time. Everyone is saying pay the man, but none of us have any idea what he's asking for. If a deal doesn't get done, we'll know that one side was being unreasonable. I'm not going to blindly assume that it's the front office every time.

Furthermore, in the last 3 years, I've seen...

-Smitty get cut

-Hardy get cut

-Munnerlyn walk

-Mitchell walk

-Ginn walk...and come back

-LaFell walk

-D-Wills get cut

We went to the friggin' Super Bowl last year. Errrbody calm down. 

Indeed, Gettleman has already had to make some big decisions in his time here. When he walked through those doors we were in cap hell and had to shop from the dollar store. Now we have cap space, can re-sign our players, and can go shopping higher up if we want to. So he deserves credit for making tough decisions, some of which have not been popular, because we now have one of the best rosters in the league and have just been to the Super Bowl. However, I think the concern that some fans have is does Gettleman believe he can let almost anyone walk and then replace them?

He just played hardball with Josh Norman, rescinded the franchise tag, and let him walk to Washington where he got a big pay day. Gettleman didn't seem to bat an eyelid at doing that, and he ended up drafting a few corners and back himself to find Norman's replacement, and backing his coaching staff to coach up the rookies and get the most out of the other players. If that works, he'll continue to be regarded as a genius, or at least someone who took a gamble and got lucky. The problem is, if the replacement corners are crap and Norman has a big year, he will get heavily critcized for letting Norman leave. 

At this point Kawann Short is still under contract and a Panthers player. Now Short wants to get paid after breaking out last season, and for that I can't blame him, but what happens if Gettleman doesn't want to pay him? At that point he will either walk or get traded. Thus, we lose another star talent. As fans that can be hard to take because I think fans generally get more pleasure seeing draft picks (or UDFAs) develop into stars for their team, than they do watching high priced free agents role in. The Warriors fans love their team and four fifths of their starting line up was drafted by them (Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green), and they have watched them grow from rookies to star players. We have seen the same from Josh Norman and Kawann Short. One of them is no longer a Panther, and the other might not be if Gettleman once again decides to try and play hardball and/or back himself to find a replacement at a fraction of the price (ie Vernon Butler).

Are some fans going over the top? Yes. But I think any fan base would rather see players they have drafted that have developed into star talent re-signed, than watch them leave the building...  

[chknwing]

KK is not holding out, He saw an All you can eat buffet. Hes holding the owner to their word. Hes been there for 6 days.

[mc52beast]

Getty likes big boys more than he likes d-backs... something will get done, no worries.

[SetfreexX]

#offseason

 

[Mr. Scot]

45 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

If it wasn't obvious before, it is clear as day now.

This dude is a troll. He's usually much more subtle and very very good at baiting, but this one was more obvious IMO... He's good. Damn good at trolling. I applaud his commitment. 

For someone to actually commit that much time and effort to trolling a fan message board would take a person with a pretty pathetic life.

[pantherclaw]

Is it time to report to training camp already?

 

No worries.

[cam1uvrxoxo]

Give this man his money ASAP. Anyone who says this team has a shot of getting by without KK is completely delusional and probably has GMans dick in their mouth

[CPF4LIFE]

I love Gettleman to but the d*** riding is becoming annoying.  A large part of the teams success is do to things that were already in place before he got here. The man hasnt won us anything yet.

[CoastalCat]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

The problem is, if the replacement corners are crap and Norman has a big year, he will get heavily critcized for letting Norman leave. 

I think fans generally get more pleasure seeing draft picks (or UDFAs) develop into stars for their team, than they do watching high priced free agents role in. 

Are some fans going over the top? Yes. But I think any fan base would rather see players they have drafted that have developed into star talent re-signed, than watch them leave the building...  

I think that's the point though. You establish how much each position is worth, and you try your best to stay in that range. 

1. Even if Josh is amazing in Washington, what positions do we skimp on to pay him $15m per year?

2. I agree completely, but DG isn't bringing in high-priced free-agents either. His policy seems to be finding talent at a decent price, and not paying too much for anyone.

3. Again, I agree. But having someone who treats these guys like numbers seems to be working.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

I wonder what the "Gettleman is jesus and can do no wrong" crowd is going to say if we lose both Norman and Short

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

2 minutes ago, R0CKnR0LLA said:

I wonder what the "Gettleman is jesus and can do no wrong" crowd is going to say if we lose both Norman and Short

i wonder what the "gettleman is satan incarnate" crew is going to do if he extends short

probably move on to the next thing to shitpost about while pretending it didn't happen, like the brandon boykin thing