Is Kawann Short holding out?

[csx]

56 minutes ago, Nick_81 said:

If he gets hurt during this voluntary stuff, it could negatively affect his contract.  It sucks, but he still has to look out for himself.

I understand that and I don't think it's a big deal but you see the guys like Cam and Luke who show how committed to the team they are.  If you are looking as a GM to go a bit higher or a bit lower then these things seem they would be a factor.

[Nick_81]

Just now, csx said:

I understand that and I don't think it's a big deal but you see the guys like Cam and Luke who show how committed to the team they are.  If you are looking as a GM to go a bit higher or a bit lower then these things seem they would be a factor.

They were in a little different situation, due to having the 5th year option covering them.  I can't say they wouldn't have been there, if that weren't the case though.  I see where you're coming from as well.

[LinvilleGorge]

Sucks, but not unexpected. Short is an elite pass rushing DT and those guys get PAID. If you want someone to be mad at, look to South Beach and that contract the Dolphins gave Suh. Now I don't know that KK is demanding Suh money, but I do know that he would get crazy money on the open market and he and his agent know that too. Hopefully the Norman situation taught them a little bit about how to handle - or not handle - this situation with Gettleman. Can't say that necessarily looks to be the case right now though. Then again, that's only relevant if Short really wants to stay. From a financial perspective, Norman "won"  his situation. 

[sharkkiller]

10 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

Steve Smith, Jordan Gross per Steve Smith debacle, Brandon LaFell, Captain Munnerlyn, Josh Norman, Gary Barnidge, DeAngelo Williams, Jon Beason, and Greg Hardy.

Replaced them with Corey Brown, Nate Chandler, Kelvin Benjamin, Antoine Cason, James Bradberry, Brandon Williams, Cameron Artis Payne, AJ Klein, and Kony Ealy.

With the exception of Kelvin Benjamin, they are all dramatic downgrades and outright failures. There is no arguing that this has degraded the talent on the team with the list above. The Panthers have been carried by veterans since 2013, and every year that declines. Now, the Panthers are carried by a handful of veterans. Those veterans are among the best in the NFL and made that known last season, but how thin can Gettleman make the veteran core of the team that has been carrying the Panthers to victory before it breaks? This team could be so much better and unquestionably dominant with the talent they were set up with during the rebuild of 2011/2012. Instead, they have been held back from realizing their potential of being a dynasty and lost a few years of their window to building that dynasty. Instead they lean on fewer and fewer key players each season to carry them and make the rest of the league stronger with the talent they have developed and allowed to walk.

$40 million guarantee; $13-14 million per year.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

short might legitimately get $50+ million guaranteed and $17+ million/year when it's all said and done

that'd still be less than what suh got too

$40 million gtd and in the $13-14 million range would be on the low end considering his value

[Leeroy Jenkins PhD]

Gettleman is right to be cautious with this contract.  It sets the stage for Star's deal next year.

[panther4life]

7 hours ago, The NFL Shield At Midfield said:

i mean if it makes you feel better, yeah, hurney probably would have paid lafell and munnerlyn whatever they wanted and kept beason around.  he would have never in a million years released steve smith and would have paid him the close to $10 million/per year he was going to get thanks to his 2012 restructure.  he would have never released charles johnson and let him test the market-at the absolute most he would have converted some of his salary to a signing bonus to make the final years of his deal even more cumbersome.  godfrey and james anderson would still be here collecting checks.  oh, and norman would have gotten his mega deal of course.

it'd be business as usual and your good old panthers ready to go their good old 7-9 or 8-8 would be just the way you like them.

I didnt read the post your responding to but felt obligated to point out the fallacies in your argument here.

Mushin Muhammad, Will Witherspoon, Ricky Manning Jr, Deon Grant, Al Wallace, Richard Marshall, Geoff Hangartner, etc all left for more money via free agency under Hurney and none really performed better once they got their payday and left us. 

Peppers left on his own free will( money not withstanding). Then of course he traded Jenkins off after he became upset with the Trgovac/ John Fox and was able to get some compensation in return.

The only year where he went crazy on overpaying multiple players to contracts was in 2011 when the new CBA started and the bulk of our best players became free agents all at once. I tend to blame Jerry for letting them all become free agents at once( remember he tanked and refused to spend a penny the uncapped year in 2010).

Even with that being said, 2011 is probably the biggest year where almost all free agents were overpaid regardless of the team they signed with. 

 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

23 minutes ago, panther4life said:

I didnt read the post your responding to but felt obligated to point out the fallacies in your argument here.

Mushin Muhammad, Will Witherspoon, Ricky Manning Jr, Deon Grant, Al Wallace, Richard Marshall, Geoff Hangartner, etc all left for more money via free agency under Hurney and none really performed better once they got their payday and left us. 

Peppers left on his own free will( money not withstanding). Then of course he traded Jenkins off after he became upset with the Trgovac/ John Fox and was able to get some compensation in return.

The only year where he went crazy on overpaying multiple players to contracts was in 2011 when the new CBA started and the bulk of our best players became free agents all at once. I tend to blame Jerry for letting them all become free agents at once( remember he tanked and refused to spend a penny the uncapped year in 2010).

Even with that being said, 2011 is probably the biggest year where almost all free agents were overpaid regardless of the team they signed with. 

 

the post i was responding to was one bemoaning gettleman "downgrading" from beason to AJ klein (i guess?) and from lafell/munnerlyn to whoever their analogs on the current roster are supposed to be among a bunch of other things.  that guy routinely asserts that gettleman is actually pretty much evil and the players/their agents can't stand to be in the same room as him in addition to naysaying virtually everything he's ever done as the general manager of this team.

yes i remember everything you referenced.  of course there were guys hurney drafted that he didn't resign.  i know things are more nuanced than that,  it was more of an exaggerated response to "wahhh why couldn't gettledouche retain the entire 2013 roster" which is what cpantherking was wailing about.  i'm pointing out how unrealistic a proposition that would have been.  i was in a rush to be an asshole because the guy i was responding to is ridiculous.  i've argued with people here about the good things that hurney did for this franchise too, actually.  i don't think he was a moron, he just made bad mistakes at even worse times.

however, i stand by my assertion that hurney would have let steve smith do whatever he wanted no matter what the cost (there are multiple corroborating stories about him being the most powerful player in the organization when he was here and that his word was even able to override that of the OC late in the fox era) and wouldn't have had the balls to cut charles johnson loose and let him test the market.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

by the way, i personally wouldn't wave off the james anderson, charles godfrey, deangelo williams, jonathan stewart (although his was in 2012), and charles johnson extensions as symptomatic of everyone getting overpaid in 2011.  tons of big contracts may have been getting handed out that year but there are still paper bricks that have been written about how they didn't make much sense from a schematic and salary/value standpoint.  and that's coming from someone who's defended johnson's huge deal even recently.

2012 was also the steve smith restructure year which backloaded the final years in his contract and made the 2014 offseason situation with him so difficult.