Antonio Cromartie wants to come to Carolina

[GoobyPls]

9 hours ago, panthers55 said:

What is hilarious are posters who criticize others with simplistic logic and poorly thought out arguments.  Technique is specific to a system and players who are mismatched for a particular system  struggle one year and excel in another system. Look at Coleman as a perfect example. Cromartie went to the probowl 4 times including 2012-14. That doesn't sound like a player who had fallen off or lacks technique. He struggled last year because the Jets system was a bad match for his skill set. It was in 2011 and again in 2015. In between he went to Arizona for 3 years and made the pro.bowl all three years. Here is a story in 2014  detailing his athleticism. I doubt it has dropped off that much.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000362292/article/antonio-cromartie-calls-out-critics-flashes-40-speed.

Besides our system focuses on being where you have to be and making a play. Something he would have no problem doing. At 6-2 and 210 lbs he has the height and size to take away big receivers in this division. If we don't bring him in it will be an attitude and character issue not the erroneous assumptions you suggest.

Jets system a bad fit????You do know Todd Bowles was also his coach in Arizona? They basically ran the same system. 

 

No one is saying Cromartie has terrible technique but ever since his FSU days Cro has always relied on his athleticism more than anything and now that he's old he's just not the same player. He has worked with some of the best DB coaches in the league, he's not gonna improve all of a sudden if he comes to Carolina.

[panthers55]

54 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Jets system a bad fit????You do know Todd Bowles was also his coach in Arizona? They basically ran the same system. 

 

No one is saying Cromartie has terrible technique but ever since his FSU days Cro has always relied on his athleticism more than anything and now that he's old he's just not the same player. He has worked with some of the best DB coaches in the league, he's not gonna improve all of a sudden if he comes to Carolina.

I bet people said the same thing about Ginn when he came here twice.  The same with TIllman on defense.  We have a recent history of guys who come here and perform much better than they did before or after they were here.  Systems are more than just a coach who goes from one team to another.  It is more about personnel  than just formations and fitting the system to who you have. As for Cromartie being old, that didnt seem to be an issue in 2014 when he went to the Pro Bowl.  You think Dan Quinn runs the same system as he did in Seattle.  You think the  Atlanta defense is as good as the Seattle one.  Just like the last poster, you have no clue what you are talking about,

But I am not going to go back and forth for weeks on Cormartie,  We likely arent going to bring him in so I wont argue ad nauseum for or against  a player who isnt going to be here. 

[stirs]

There are certain skill sets required for our system. Some skills not necessarily needed.  Gman will determine from skill sets more so than experience I would think

[panthers55]

4 minutes ago, stirs said:

There are certain skill sets required for our system. Some skills not necessarily needed.  Gman will determine from skill sets more so than experience I would think

Our defense is a highly accountable defense where everyone has to be where they are supposed to be on every play or we give up a big play.  Norman didnt play until he played with discipline.  We can take guys like Harper and Tillman and Coleman who are not great athletes and make them great in our system because they are smart and they know the game. They also have to be a certain type of person willing to help the younger guys develop and fit into the locker room. Character is a big issue. That is likely why Cromartie may not be a good fit.

[stirs]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Our defense is a highly accountable defense where everyone has to be where they are supposed to be on every play or we give up a big play.  Norman didnt play until he played with discipline.  We can take guys like Harper and Tillman and Coleman who are not great athletes and make them great in our system because they are smart and they know the game. They also have to be a certain type of person willing to help the younger guys develop and fit into the locker room. Character is a big issue. That is likely why Cromartie may not be a good fit.

Exactly my point, but more detailed, agreed

[SmashNDash]

13 hours ago, panthers55 said:

What is hilarious are posters who criticize others with simplistic logic and poorly thought out arguments.  Technique is specific to a system and players who are mismatched for a particular system  struggle one year and excel in another system. Look at Coleman as a perfect example. Cromartie went to the probowl 4 times including 2012-14. That doesn't sound like a player who had fallen off or lacks technique. He struggled last year because the Jets system was a bad match for his skill set. It was in 2011 and again in 2015. In between he went to Arizona for 3 years and made the pro.bowl all three years. Here is a story in 2014  detailing his athleticism. I doubt it has dropped off that much.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000362292/article/antonio-cromartie-calls-out-critics-flashes-40-speed.

Besides our system focuses on being where you have to be and making a play. Something he would have no problem doing. At 6-2 and 210 lbs he has the height and size to take away big receivers in this division. If we don't bring him in it will be an attitude and character issue not the erroneous assumptions you suggest.

You're mixing up technique and scheme.  How to tackle, how to time your jump for an incoming pass, proper footwork in your back peddle and breaking on certain routes, and things like the peanut punch are techinique, which will stay the same no matter what defense you're playing in.  These are things he would need once he no longer runs a 4.3 and can simply use his superior speed as a crutch.  Speed can hide a lot of poor technique, and 2014 is a long time ago when you're talking about a player who's over 30. I you never played sports, you don't understand.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, SmashNDash said:

You're mixing up technique and scheme.  How to tackle, how to time your jump for an incoming pass, proper footwork in your back peddle and breaking on certain routes, and things like the peanut punch are techinique, which will stay the same no matter what defense you're playing in.  These are things he would need once he no longer runs a 4.3 and can simply use his superior speed as a crutch.  Speed can hide a lot of poor technique, and 2014 is a long time ago when you're talking about a player who's over 30. I you never played sports, you don't understand.

Again with your oversimplification. Ask yourself if technique is all similar and never changes than how can a player like Oher play awful in Tennessee and good here. He himself said he was using poor technique and Matso straightened him out and refined his technique.  Secondly players develop bad habits and technique errors which can be untaught. Thirdly, all players learn to substitute game knowledge and understanding for pure athleticism. That is how they play into their 30s like Steve Smith.

Lastly, if technique and scheme are so unrelated then tell me  what a Defensive tackle is doing playing a 1 technique without talking about scheme.  Like I said, stop with the oversimplications.  Sure you mentioned something about some aspects of technique but there is more than one definition of technique in football and things are hardly as black and white as you suggest.

If anyone sounds as if they have never played sports it is you not me.

[KillerKat]

Just now, panthers55 said:

Again with your oversimplification. Ask yourself if technique is all similar and never changes than how can a player like Otah play awful in Tennessee and good here. He himself said he was using poor technique and Matso straightened him out and refined his technique.  Secondly players develop bad habits and technique errors which can be untaught. Thirdly, all players learn to substitute game knowledge and understanding for pure athleticism. They is how they play into their 30s like Steve Smith.

If anyone sounds as if they have never played sports it is you not me.

*Oher. gotcha brah.

[panthers55]

34 minutes ago, KillerKat said:

*Oher. gotcha brah.

thanks.  

[GoobyPls]

9 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I bet people said the same thing about Ginn when he came here twice.  The same with TIllman on defense.  We have a recent history of guys who come here and perform much better than they did before or after they were here.  Systems are more than just a coach who goes from one team to another.  It is more about personnel  than just formations and fitting the system to who you have. As for Cromartie being old, that didnt seem to be an issue in 2014 when he went to the Pro Bowl.  You think Dan Quinn runs the same system as he did in Seattle.  You think the  Atlanta defense is as good as the Seattle one.  Just like the last poster, you have no clue what you are talking about,

But I am not going to go back and forth for weeks on Cormartie,  We likely arent going to bring him in so I wont argue ad nauseum for or against  a player who isnt going to be here. 

People said what about Ginn? Tillman has always played with great technique and had Norman to take up a side of the field. Dan Quinn WTF, Just stop. He played the same exact scheme in NY and Arizona now, he just had a terrible season and is probably on the decline. Make excuses all you want, it's not gonna change anything.

 

 

 

[panthers55]

4 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

People said what about Ginn? Tillman has always played with great technique and had Norman to take up a side of the field. Dan Quinn WTF, Just stop. He played the same exact scheme in NY and Arizona now, he just had a terrible season and is probably on the decline. Make excuses all you want, it's not gonna change anything.

 

 

 

No two teams play the exact same scheme and no team plays the exact same scheme throughout a game let alone a season, so you need to stop.  How many coverages and secondary schemes do you think there are?  Teams play zone or man coverage.  Cover 0, cover1, cover2, cover3 etc.  Sure there are many different variations within a scheme and you can play man on the outside, zone up the middle, show zone and go to man and a number of different variations. And defenses change up what they do from one series to another and from one play to another based on down and distance.  But to say two teams play the exact same scheme is naive at best given that a scheme is composed on a number of issues which includes the quality of personnel.  McDermott had the same scheme in philly that he had here but the results were awful there and great here.  Why?  better personnel and the influence of all the other coaches.  One coach doesnt control what a team does anymore than Rivera can control everything we do on a daily basis.  

Saying a guy who went to the probowl in 2014 suddenly dropped off in a year because he declined without an injury or other reason is just stupid.  Especially given that there is a much easier and plausible reason which is he moved teams and was a bad fit for that team. But lets ignore the obvious and blame the player to fit your agenda.

I am done here because it is clear that logic has little sway here and even when proven wrong you and a few others will continue to argue regardless.  Especially when he isnt likely coming her for character issues not talent.

[rippadonn]

He's a smart man.  Father's Day has huge potential. When he's eighty something, more love, more chance for visits.

You naturally couldn't find a more motivated individual 

[GoobyPls]

11 hours ago, panthers55 said:

No two teams play the exact same scheme and no team plays the exact same scheme throughout a game let alone a season, so you need to stop.  How many coverages and secondary schemes do you think there are?  Teams play zone or man coverage.  Cover 0, cover1, cover2, cover3 etc.  Sure there are many different variations within a scheme and you can play man on the outside, zone up the middle, show zone and go to man and a number of different variations. And defenses change up what they do from one series to another and from one play to another based on down and distance.  But to say two teams play the exact same scheme is naive at best given that a scheme is composed on a number of issues which includes the quality of personnel.  McDermott had the same scheme in philly that he had here but the results were awful there and great here.  Why?  better personnel and the influence of all the other coaches.  One coach doesnt control what a team does anymore than Rivera can control everything we do on a daily basis.  

Saying a guy who went to the probowl in 2014 suddenly dropped off in a year because he declined without an injury or other reason is just stupid.  Especially given that there is a much easier and plausible reason which is he moved teams and was a bad fit for that team. But lets ignore the obvious and blame the player to fit your agenda.

I am done here because it is clear that logic has little sway here and even when proven wrong you and a few others will continue to argue regardless.  Especially when he isnt likely coming her for character issues not talent.

3 paragraphs of jibber jabber. Go watch any jets film from last season. The jets have good to great  personel all over their defense but they suffered in two areas their LB corp and  Cromartie. He was used in a ton of man, which is what he's used to and what he in the past excelled  at, but age hit him like a ton of bricks last year. It's clear that he isn't the same player.

 

You keep bringing up the pro bowl as if it's the end all be all. He made it as a reserve, Teddy Bridgewater was a pro bowler this year as a reserve, that right there should end the discussion. The Cardinals didn't even bring him back.

 

 

[CWORS]

I don't think DG will sign him...unless one of the rooks struggle during training camp and preseason