Philly Brown had shoulder surgery

[Toomers]

11 minutes ago, top dawg said:

No wonder Funchess was more efficient... That's what happens when you get open. 

As for the other stuff,  what does it matter?  You have your opinion and I have mine.  Sometimes you don't have to explicitly say something to make an implication,  but if that's not what you were doing,  then my apologies.  This is the Internet,  and there are instances of miscommunication because you can't actually see nonverbal cues. 

That being said,  you can't be surprised when someone basically takes your words about a "common" and "disturbing trend" of valuing players that basically are unproven (for various and understandable reasons) as a mischaracterization of what they are really doing,  which is basically being hopeful for an upgrade at a particular position. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being hopeful,  and it's really to be expected.  

   And sometimes, people can read anything they want to into a statement or situation. Which is what you did here. Just like you use efficiency stats to downgrade Philly, yet failed to even consider them when trying to say the passing offense is bottom third in the NFL. Something you refuse to even address or respond to. You read(and used stats) that fit your agenda. 

[Snake]

5 hours ago, TheRed said:

He's like 2 months younger than KB. Not really all that significant.

Anyway. Wasn't it Stephen Hill that Jeremy was posting training camp photos of as the only receiver not following the ball with his eyes as the pass was heading toward his hands?

Let's not act like he was setting the field on fire in camp before he got hurt.

I think you are up playing that. I remember him saying he improve a bunch before he got hurt.  It took Norman 4 years to develop and no one though he was setting the world on fire while riding the pine. 

[Snake]

4 hours ago, KSpan said:

Cotchery's contract was going to be voided no matter what and Funchess' development made him expendable. Hill could not even crack the 53 in 2014 and I doubt he improved his WR skills while rehabbing his knee. Not saying he won't get a shot or doesn't deserve one, but it will take some steep improvement from Hill to stay on the team this year.

We shall see. 

[top dawg]

23 minutes ago, Toomers said:

   And sometimes, people can read anything they want to into a statement or situation. Which is what you did here. Just like you use efficiency stats to downgrade Philly, yet failed to even consider them when trying to say the passing offense is bottom third in the NFL. Something you refuse to even address or respond to. You read(and used stats) that fit your agenda. 

Dude,  what are you even talking about?  I apologized if there was some miscommunication.  The fact is that you are the one that talked about training camp legends,  common and disturbing trends,  and want me to use a metric that is solely for rating the efficiency of a wide receiver and extrapolate it to the entire passing game. The fact is,  Philly should have been more productive given the opportunity that he had to make plays on the field.  Nothing you say is going to change my opinion on that.  The passing offense in general left a lot of meat on the bone,  but luckily Cam played out of his mind,  spread the ball around,  and got the ball to the open receiver.  That's the main reason why the offense was so successful last year,  notwithstanding some shortcomings.  If we can add another playmaker or two on the field on a more consistent basis in the passing game that is more productive and sure-handed than what we had last season,  then we will be markedly more efficient in all phases of the offense. 

My opinion has been stated,  so there is really no need to keep going around in circles. 

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Dude,  what are you even talking about?  I apologized if there was some miscommunication.  The fact is that you are the one that talked about training camp legends,  common and disturbing trends,  and want me to use a metric that is solely for rating the efficiency of a wide receiver and extrapolate it to the entire passing game. The fact is,  Philly should have been more productive given the opportunity that he had to make plays on the field.  Nothing you say is going to change my opinion on that.  The passing offense in general left a lot of meat on the bone,  but luckily Cam played out of his mind,  spread the ball around,  and got the ball to the open receiver.  That's the main reason why the offense was so successful last year,  notwithstanding some shortcomings.  If we can add another playmaker or two on the field on a more consistent basis in the passing game that is more productive and sure-handed than what we had last season,  then we will be markedly more efficient in all phases of the offense. 

My opinion has been stated,  so there is really no need to keep going around in circles. 

   You issued a back-handed apology then proceeded to blame me for you completely mis-reading my comments. As for opportunities, Funchess had more opportunities(targets) to do something. And Philly was equally productive with less opportunity. How many of each ones plays were running plays. Who was covering them. There is context to every stat. If he's the 3rd read on a route, he's not going to get the ball thrown to him if the 1st and 2nd option are open. And as I stated earlier, he will be in a much different role, against a lower caliber of DBs this year. 

   Now, no one take this to mean I think Philly should start( or is better going forward) over Funchess. I've made it clear that he and KB are the starters. But if you want to talk about leaving meat on the bone. Why isn't Ginn being discussed as the one that needs to go. The same guy that dropped 6 40+ yd. TD passes last year alone. Amazing my numerous other drops. 

[TheRed]

1 hour ago, Snake said:

I think you are up playing that. I remember him saying he improve a bunch before he got hurt.  It took Norman 4 years to develop and no one though he was setting the world on fire while riding the pine. 

Following the ball with your eyes is huge for any receiver.

I can't even begin to wrap my mind around a Stephen Hill/Josh Norman comparison. You completely lost me there.

[Snake]

31 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Following the ball with your eyes is huge for any receiver.

I can't even begin to wrap my mind around a Stephen Hill/Josh Norman comparison. You completely lost me there.

Not sure who you are trying to convince? Me or you?

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

   You issued a back-handed apology then proceeded to blame me for you completely mis-reading my comments. As for opportunities, Funchess had more opportunities(targets) to do something. And Philly was equally productive with less opportunity. How many of each ones plays were running plays. Who was covering them. There is context to every stat. If he's the 3rd read on a route, he's not going to get the ball thrown to him if the 1st and 2nd option are open. And as I stated earlier, he will be in a much different role, against a lower caliber of DBs this year. 

   Now, no one take this to mean I think Philly should start( or is better going forward) over Funchess. I've made it clear that he and KB are the starters. But if you want to talk about leaving meat on the bone. Why isn't Ginn being discussed as the one that needs to go. The same guy that dropped 6 40+ yd. TD passes last year alone. Amazing my numerous other drops. 

A back-handed apology? No, just an affirmation of maybe what you said didn't sounded like what it appeared.

Quote

"One extremely common, and disturbing trend, is how a majority of this board values unproven players who have never played a down in the NFL( or were awful if they did), over players who have proven they could play. There are so many training camp legends that I've literally lost count."

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean this as a slight---basically saying that there is something wrong for valuing "unproven players" over players who have proven that they could play, and then throwing in an insinuation that from within the ranks of these "unproven players" comes the yearly "training camp legend" as so deemed by the majority of the board. 

I reject that notion as I understand it because it is too simplistic and doesn't take a player's time in the system or other things pertaining to development into account, but I also disagree with your literal words on their face.  The majority of the Huddle, if anything, is split on so-called "proven" players, if not more supportive of them being that they've been here. Brown certainly has gotten his support as a legit WR3 in the Huddle (and some would say even higher). Moreover, until  person is cut, they are just as much a part of the team as any other, and should be valued likewise, not become the butt of jokes and unsubstantiated innuendo.

 

As for Pro Football Focus and its WRER, it is somewhat involved and is a stat like any other, but the focus is on being a receiver and ll the things that come with it like, routes run, separation, catching and YAC. If you want to see more, then read the article. It's not talking about running, or running offenses vs passing offenses, it's referring to a receivers efficiency per routes run, etc.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/02/fantasy-introducing-wide-receiver-efficiency-rating/

 

There is really nothing else to say.

[TheRed]

1 hour ago, Snake said:

Not sure who you are trying to convince? Me or you?

Talk to any WR coach about the importance of following the ball in the air. You can not overstate it. All the athleticism and size in the world won't help overcome not being able to grasp the mental aspect of the position. It's crucial.

Beyond that I have no idea where you are going. You just compared a WR who hasn't even scored a touchdown in 3 years to the best CB in football last year. Sooo, I guess we're done here. Enjoy your evening.

[FuFuLamePoo]

Can't see Brown getting cut

[TheRed]

top dawg has always been outspoken of Philly Brown. Nothing new.

He has his right to that opinion.

Of course others have the right to laugh at him for downplaying Brown who has actually produced lately, while simultaneously going out of his way to hype up mediocre washed up WR's like Denarius Moore. Who by the way doesn't even have a team currently, and hasn't since November of last year.

[Daddy_Uncle]

As long as we keep brenton "white lightning" bersin on the team I dont care who the rest are

[top dawg]

27 minutes ago, TheRed said:

top dawg has always been outspoken of Philly Brown. Nothing new.

He has his right to that opinion.

Of course others have the right to laugh at him for downplaying Brown who has actually produced lately, while simultaneously going out of his way to hype up mediocre washed up WR's like Denarius Moore. Who by the way doesn't even have a team currently, and hasn't since November of last year.

Your proclivity towards digging up old hat,  peppered with a little bit of your own special bit of TheRed pepper infused with half truths is legendary. 

Perhaps he is mediocre and washed up, but his body of work will still be indicative of a receiver that outshines Brown's in every statistical category that matters as a receiver if Brown continues on his present trajectory in as many years. So...you can take that how you want.  I don't know if it is indicative of your hypocrisy or not,  but could be. :)

 

[CPF4LIFE]

10 hours ago, Frank Hollywood said:

For those who don't think Philly is worthy of at least the #5 receiver spot on this team, can I have whatever you're smoking?

Practice squad? He'd be scooped up in a second.

LOL......You think so???