Philly Brown had shoulder surgery

[Toomers]

6 minutes ago, top dawg said:

You would think that Huddlers would have raised their standards from one offseason to the next. 

The myth that Brown is this WR with the upside of a one---err  two,  was basically disproved by his meh performance last year.  I want better,  and I hope that we get it. 

  Who is claiming that he's a one or a two. We used two high draft picks on those spots. And they are both locked in for at least 3 years. He a very good #4, who has shown he can be an effective, reliable #3. Which is exactly what we need right now. People that want to spend money, or draft picks at the expense of helping another position, to upgrade an overrated position is what I don't get. And talk of replacing him with players that every team has taken a pass on, multiple times, is what is comical. People bring up the Super Bowl, and how the lack of separation hurt us. So the answer is to get rid of the one guy who did consistently get separation. Yes, completely logical.

 

   I've spent a year rarely posting, because I wanted to get a feel for the board and it's posters before I started jumping in on discussions. One extremely common, and disturbing trend, is how a majority of this board values unproven players who have never played a down in the NFL( or were awful if they did), over players who have proven they could play. There are so many training camp legends that I've literally lost count. 

[GoobyPls]

7 hours ago, TN05 said:

http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Philly-Brown-86-yard-TD-catch/38c1be27-641f-4321-93f1-14a4e798276f

What is that video suppose to show? Philly didn't run by him. The funny thing is he probably got more YAC in that play then he did all season.

 

[Davidson Deac II]

6 hours ago, top dawg said:

You would think that Huddlers would have raised their standards from one offseason to the next. 

The myth that Brown is this WR with the upside of a one---err  two,  was basically disproved by his meh performance last year.  I want better,  and I hope that we get it. 

Every receiver we have has some upside, Brown included.  Brown has improved both years he has been with us.  That is not to say he is a probowl threat or something like that, but at this point in his career, he has certainly shown more than Hill, Bersin, and Norwood.  Fwiw, Brown was probably our most consistent receiver during our playoff run.

[top dawg]

11 hours ago, Toomers said:

  Who is claiming that he's a one or a two. We used two high draft picks on those spots. And they are both locked in for at least 3 years. He a very good #4, who has shown he can be an effective, reliable #3. Which is exactly what we need right now. People that want to spend money, or draft picks at the expense of helping another position, to upgrade an overrated position is what I don't get. And talk of replacing him with players that every team has taken a pass on, multiple times, is what is comical. People bring up the Super Bowl, and how the lack of separation hurt us. So the answer is to get rid of the one guy who did consistently get separation. Yes, completely logical.

 

   I've spent a year rarely posting, because I wanted to get a feel for the board and it's posters before I started jumping in on discussions. One extremely common, and disturbing trend, is how a majority of this board values unproven players who have never played a down in the NFL( or were awful if they did), over players who have proven they could play. There are so many training camp legends that I've literally lost count. 

What we need right now is to get the passing offense running at an optimal level as opposed to being in the bottom third of the league.  Most are hopeful that the return of Benjamin and the continuing evolution of Funchess will go a long way towards that end. 

Brown had more snaps than any receiver last year,  arguably markedly,  and his production was not in line with the opportunities that he had on the field.  I am on my phone right now,  so I am too lazy to pull the links,  but if you look up PFF's Wide Receiver Efficiency Rating (WRER),  Brown ranked 115th out of 134 receivers.  By the same token,  Ginn was 4th and Funchess was like 21st or something. So regardless of people trying to trumpet Brown getting separation,  he is still not as efficient as his counterparts. Not only do the eyes see that he doesn't give you as much bang for your buck (so to speak) as many receivers in the league, the stats bare that out as well. He should be on the bench,  and would be for most teams. 

 

As for the Huddle, I find your characterization somewhat funny.  I don't  find anything disturbing about fans wanting the team and/or the personnel on the team to improve. Improvement is what leads to championships and sustained success. One major way to improve your team is by upgrading the quality of every position on the team,  much less the skilled positions like wide receiver. If being hopeful that new blood that is infused into the franchise will give the team a boost as a whole is a crime,  notwithstanding so-called proven veterans,  then most of us are guilty as charged.  I know that I am.  

Thankfully Gettleman doesn't believe in resting on his laurels,  continues to try and upgrade the team,  and has the proclivity to take the emotion out of the equation that determines what is best for the franchise. 

[TheRed]

13 hours ago, top dawg said:

You would think that Huddlers would have raised their standards from one offseason to the next. 

The myth that Brown is this WR with the upside of a one---err  two,  was basically disproved by his meh performance last year.  I want better,  and I hope that we get it. 

Oh geez.

[Razeyfingers]

35 minutes ago, top dawg said:

What we need right now is to get the passing offense running at an optimal level as opposed to being in the bottom third of the league.  Most are hopeful that the return of Benjamin and the continuing evolution of Funchess will go a long way towards that end. 

Brown had more snaps than any receiver last year,  arguably markedly,  and his production was not in line with the opportunities that he had on the field.  I am on my phone right now,  so I am too lazy to pull the links,  but if you look up PFF's Wide Receiver Efficiency Rating (WRER),  Brown ranked 115th out of 134 receivers.  By the same token,  Ginn was 4th and Funchess was like 21st or something. So regardless of people trying to trumpet Brown getting separation,  he is still not as efficient as his counterparts. Not only do the eyes see that he doesn't give you as much bang for your buck (so to speak) as many receivers in the league, the stats bare that out as well. He should be on the bench,  and would be for most teams. 

 

As for the Huddle, I find your characterization somewhat funny.  I don't  find anything disturbing about fans wanting the team and/or the personnel on the team to improve. Improvement is what leads to championships and sustained success. One major way to improve your team is by upgrading the quality of every position on the team,  much less the skilled positions like wide receiver. If being hopeful that new blood that is infused into the franchise will give the team a boost as a whole is a crime,  notwithstanding so-called proven veterans,  then most of us are guilty as charged.  I know that I am.  

Thankfully Gettleman doesn't believe in resting on his laurels,  continues to try and upgrade the team,  and has the proclivity to take the emotion out of the equation that determines what is best for the franchise. 

The problem with your explanation is that youre acting as if what one receiver does has no effect on the other. Youre acting as though if KB was there Brown still wouldnt have had yardage. So youre concepts of understanding of how receiving works is ALL broken. If you cant watch the game and see that Ginn cant run deep outs and in's because he cant catch. Funchess wasnt agile enough to do it at high speed so they wouldnt let him run it either. Then the strategy of your offense is very broken without a guy who cant run all the routes. Its critical that a receiver runs these routes on pass plays as well as run to provide misdirection and move the defense where you want them to ideally be.

 

How much longer will you guys pretend to understand what youre talking about? I mean maybe youll learn so more if you read some more stats over at PFF, TOOOOOOP Daawg.

[TheRed]

I would seriously like to see these posts, or hell, any post, of someone claiming that Corey is a #1 lol.

[Toomers]

53 minutes ago, top dawg said:

What we need right now is to get the passing offense running at an optimal level as opposed to being in the bottom third of the league.  Most are hopeful that the return of Benjamin and the continuing evolution of Funchess will go a long way towards that end. 

Brown had more snaps than any receiver last year,  arguably markedly,  and his production was not in line with the opportunities that he had on the field.  I am on my phone right now,  so I am too lazy to pull the links,  but if you look up PFF's Wide Receiver Efficiency Rating (WRER),  Brown ranked 115th out of 134 receivers.  By the same token,  Ginn was 4th and Funchess was like 21st or something. So regardless of people trying to trumpet Brown getting separation,  he is still not as efficient as his counterparts. Not only do the eyes see that he doesn't give you as much bang for your buck (so to speak) as many receivers in the league, the stats bare that out as well. He should be on the bench,  and would be for most teams. 

 

As for the Huddle, I find your characterization somewhat funny.  I don't  find anything disturbing about fans wanting the team and/or the personnel on the team to improve. Improvement is what leads to championships and sustained success. One major way to improve your team is by upgrading the quality of every position on the team,  much less the skilled positions like wide receiver. If being hopeful that new blood that is infused into the franchise will give the team a boost as a whole is a crime,  notwithstanding so-called proven veterans,  then most of us are guilty as charged.  I know that I am.  

Thankfully Gettleman doesn't believe in resting on his laurels,  continues to try and upgrade the team,  and has the proclivity to take the emotion out of the equation that determines what is best for the franchise. 

    Well, every statement after us having a bottom third of the league passing attack should be taken with the lack of knowledge that statement brings with it. Based on what? Total yards? Seriously? One of only two teams that ran the ball more than they threw it, and you want to use the one state that is entirely based on volume pass attempts. Why not use Y/A (6th), NY/A (9th), TD%(1st). Or are efficiency stats only good when used to make your stance. And Philly's "ratings" are largely based on his lack of targets. Yet the coast he's still chose to have him on the field more than any other WR. Are the coaches, stupid? And no one wants Philly playing the same role as last year. With KB back and Funchess improvement, Ginn goes from a liability as a #1, to a weapon as a #3. Same with Philly from a #2 to a #4. Neither will see the same attention or quality of player covering them this year. Which will only improve their play. We accomplished all that above passing with Ginn, Brown, and an extremely raw Funchess. Cot here has already been replaced about as well as could ever be hoped with the return of KB. Considering we are a RUNNING team, with a passing game that runs through the TE, how many WR do we have to aquire. Should we follow the Colts blueprint at the expense of more important positions?

  And where did I say anything about not wanting to Ime rove the team. I was talking about the love affair with players who at best are training camp legends. Ones that have never done anything. Even the ones that have had multiple shots (Hill).   The same people complaining about draft picks, had Cash as our starting ST the second he signed. Where's Lee Ward. If Garrett and Cash are so special, why did 32 teams pass on them a total of 253 times? That is the only comment I made. Nothing about your ridiculous not wanting get to improve poo (my first poo....yay).

   Learn how to read. And quit cherry-picking what stats suit your agenda.

[TheRed]

If we can find an upgrade over Brown, great. That would mean we are in pretty damn good shape. I'd be happy with that.

But people throwing Stephen Hill's name out as if that is an actual answer is pretty much laughable at best. Brown has at least done something in the NFL the last 3 years. The legend of Stephen Hill is just about reaching David Gettis levels of absurdity.

Just to be clear, the last time Hill scored a single touchdown was nearly 3 years ago. But Philly is a bum? Ok...

[KB_fan]

I think the legend of Stephen Hill was nearly dead until Cam started saying how great he'd been doing before his injury.  That sort of revived things...  Hard to know if Cam was just being kind about a guy who was down, or if he really felt Hill was ready to ball.  We'll see soon...

It does seem a bit laughable, but hey, it adds a fun mystique and another layer of intrigue to training camp, and heck, if he can turn into the player even half as good as some of our wildest imaginings... Yowza!

Hoping the year of rehab with Benji has given the two of them a special bond that will translate into something magical on the field.  What a comeback that would be, and would add to the legend of the Panthers being able to rehabilitate players other teams have discarded and finding treasure.  It's that hope that keeps the Huddle support for Hill alive.

 

[Nick_81]

I just wonder if the people dissing Brown's speed, could find an instance where he was ran down from behind?  I can't recall any, so, just curious to know.

[shaqattaq]

22 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

ran a 4.51 at the combine. Not great for a guy his size. 

4.37 unofficial time. Hill ran 4.36 officially.  BTW Ginn ran 4.28 in the combine once upon a time.

edit: as far as I know, Hill still sucks. I have not seen him play since the jets cut him, and he sucked then.

[motocross_cat]

2 minutes ago, Nick_81 said:

I just wonder if the people dissing Brown's speed, could find an instance where he was ran down from behind?  I can't recall any, so, just curious to know.

His route running is outstanding.  I dont care about his speed honestly.

[Nick_81]

Just now, motocross_cat said:

His route running is outstanding.  I dont care about his speed honestly.

I agree. I was just wondering, because I can't recall anyone running him down from behind.  I think he's faster than the combine numbers revealed.  I think back to that fuged up punt return against Chicago.  I was at that game and thought, damn, that kid is faster than that.  Even watching it on film, he looks damn fast, and he let up about the 25 yd line.