Carolina Panthers select DT Vernon Butler

[aussiePanther]

3 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

IIRC We cut Cole about 1 month into the season

You're right he was cut on October 1st 2015.

[outlaw4]

In retrospect, reading all the responses here remind me a bit of when we drafted Luke. My mind was going "But we have Beast. LB is not the biggest need. Why?" Imagine if had we filled another need back then (Quinton Coples was popular here, iirc). Would doing that would have been worth not having Kuechly today, even if Beast never got injured?

Grant you, no player is a guarantee to be a success. Needs do need adressing but on draft day, leaning heavily toward needs means you risk settling for something less when you could've had more.

[Icebox]

People keep saying this is "leverage" in negotiations with Star. That's not what "leverage" means. Star is going to be looking to get paid. It won't matter to him whether or not we have a quality replacement on the roster. 

This is "insurance" if we actually plan on seriously negotiating with Star --- and by the way, no one that posts here knows for sure - and it's the "investment" in case we do not.

[Toomers]

59 minutes ago, aussiePanther said:

Same number as last year, Star, Short, Dean, Love, & Cole.

Love may not get dressed every Sunday, maybe.

Love has to make the team first. He can be cut and only cost 80k against the cap. 

[CRA]

47 minutes ago, outlaw4 said:

In retrospect, reading all the responses here remind me a bit of when we drafted Luke. My mind was going "But we have Beast. LB is not the biggest need. Why?" Imagine if had we filled another need back then (Quinton Coples was popular here, iirc). Would doing that would have been worth not having Kuechly today, even if Beast never got injured?

Grant you, no player is a guarantee to be a success. Needs do need adressing but on draft day, leaning heavily toward needs means you risk settling for something less when you could've had more.

This pick doesn't relate to Beason/Luke.

KK's body isn't a mess trying to see if he can get back.  On top of that Beason's best was extremely good.  KK's best appears to be approaching Sapp like dominance.

you want KK Short on the field and their are no doubts about him

 

[CRA]

47 minutes ago, Icebox said:

People keep saying this is "leverage" in negotiations with Star. That's not what "leverage" means. Star is going to be looking to get paid. It won't matter to him whether or not we have a quality replacement on the roster. 

This is "insurance" if we actually plan on seriously negotiating with Star --- and by the way, no one that posts here knows for sure - and it's the "investment" in case we do not.

Who is Star's quality replacement? The new kid doesn't pose Star a threat.  Annoyed one would be KK IMO.  Leverage to not pay him potentially HUGE money if he continues where he left off

[Icebox]

You are correct. I meant KK. However, I do think that Butler has enough flexibility to play Star's position, too.

But, once again, that's not leverage. That's insurance.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, aussiePanther said:

It seems to me that far too many people fail to see the obvious and basic difference between "rotational" and "depth". You need more than 2 DTs on a roster.

Also for some reason after seeing it work for three years the idea that you draft true BPA (for your system/schemes) and fill needs in FA seems to be hard to grasp.

Good insight.

[aussiePanther]

17 minutes ago, Icebox said:

You are correct. I meant KK. However, I do think that Butler has enough flexibility to play Star's position, too.

But, once again, that's not leverage. That's insurance.

I would call that "valuable rotational flexibility". Or "day 1 impact".

[Castavar]

Have people not learned ANYTHING from BPA? Imagine us missing out on Luke just because we already had "one of the best MLB in the game in Beason". For a team who's motto is "big guys let you compete", a team who puts a premium on DT's, and for a team that always stresses depth, why are people still questioning this pick?

This will be fun looking back at this thread at the end of year when we are just anniihilating O-lines for 60 minutes instead of 50.

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, Castavar said:

Have people not learned ANYTHING from BPA? Imagine us missing out on Luke just because we already had "one of the best MLB in the game in Beason". For a team who's motto is "big guys let you compete", a team who puts a premium on DT's, and for a team that always stresses depth, why are people still questioning this pick?

This will be fun looking back at this thread at the end of year when we are just anniihilating O-lines for 60 minutes instead of 50.

Beason was a broken vet.  Luke made sense. 

[O-Ther]

2 hours ago, KB_fan said:

Seems like this could be a great pick for 3rd downs.  KK & Butler.  Be very afraid...! 

SWEET.

Understand why it's hard for some to love.   I was definitely shaking my head last year with the picks of Shaq & Mayo, so yeah, I get feeling like we're not addressing needs.

I had an idea this morning that I don't know whether it makes any sense.  DG and Ron have shown that they are sometimes ahead of the curve in how the game is trending...  Right now, everyone is focused on DEs, having watched Von Miller beat us in the SB.  Everyone wants a pass rush like Denver.  So... maybe O coordinators are going to be primarily game planning for pass rushes from the outside, but NOT so much against the pass rush from the inside?  Could DG & Ron be planning to exploit that obsession with edge rushers against opposing offenses to our benefit?

Just a crazy thought I had...

Your first sentence I agree with. Remember how we led the league in rushing attempts vs. passing attempts? That tells me the rest of the league throws more than we do. By extension, Star, Soliai, and Love (primarily run-stoppers) see less snaps because they don't rush the passer as well as KK, or even half as well as KK. That was the purpose of rotating Kony inside on some passing downs, to create pressure from inside as well as outside.

Now that Butler is here, we finally have another pass-rush DT like Dwan used to be before he got real old real quick last year. That's the method I see in Gettleman's "madness". As much as I like them, Star, Soliai, and Love just don't have natural pass-rush talent. With our opponents passing more than rushing, it makes sense to bring in Butler to play next to KK on the more numerous passing downs we will face, preventing KK from getting worn down in the 4th quarter by double-teams all game long.

[Shocker]

Carolina (thankfully) understands positional value in terms of the cap and drafting.  That is why CB was probably a long shot in the first round.  The Gangster knows what he is doing.  BPA in round 1 regardless.  

[CatMan72]

14 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

We already had interior rush. We don't have much outside rush. I mean look no further than the fact that our leading sacker was a DT and he had more than any other two players combined...maybe any three others combined. I'd have to check on that. 

True, but we lost Dwan Edwards and needed to replace his production in our rotation. A good inside rush will help the outside rush by driving the QB out of the pocket towards the edges (assuming he's able to escape). KK was so good at getting to the passer last year that our outside rush didn't have much of a chance. No way the DE beats the DT to the QB when the DT is getting the kind of penetration KK was getting. 

Much easier for a QB to step up in the pocket (and throw) to avoid outside rush then escape the pocket to avoid interior rush (and hold the ball a little longer in the process).