Ogbah is boom-or-bust according to Stephen White, retired NFL DE

[top dawg]

28 minutes ago, jdpanther5 said:

"I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was out of the league in four years. On the other hand, he could also go to the right team with the right coach and work his ass off and all of a sudden become the Defensive Rookie of the Year."

I feel like you could say this about anyone. 

"He could bust out; he could be ROY; or, just maybe, he could be somewhere in between." My column:

Stephen White said a whole helluva lot more than that. That was basically the conclusion.

48 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

I don't think he'll "bust" like many think of when they hear that word. I think his floor in the NFL is a solid rotational end, with the potential to be a "boom." He's got an NFL build already and is good at stopping the run and can drop back into coverage but needs a lot of work in rushing the passer to be effective at the next level.

When I hear that word, I think of someone who will never reach that first round potential. 

43 minutes ago, csx said:

OK, so he's not a scout. It seems he's not a nobody but I'm not going to worry about his opinion vs our scouts.

Honestly, from what I've been reading, his opinion is very fair. He didn't say that Ogbah will bomb, he basically said that he wouldn't be surprised if Ogbah washes out of the league, but he also intimated that given the right situation and coaching, Ogbah could be great. 

 

FWIW, he didn't even really mention Ogbah's strong work ethic and willingness to be coached, he was coming from more of a purely technical (film) standpoint. 

[chknwing]

I believe Gettlemen stated anyone you select in the first round you are expecting that player to come in and contribute and make an impact on the game.  If ogbah is a project and will need a year or 2 to be coached up, then he doesnt fit the description Gettlemen stated.

 

I think Carolina is going OL or TE in round 1, DE in round 2, and S or CB in Round 3

[top dawg]

5 hours ago, chknwing said:

I believe Gettlemen stated anyone you select in the first round you are expecting that player to come in and contribute and make an impact on the game.  If ogbah is a project and will need a year or 2 to be coached up, then he doesnt fit the description Gettlemen stated.

 

I think Carolina is going OL or TE in round 1, DE in round 2, and S or CB in Round 3

Even this guy---so highly critical of Ogbah---mentions Ogbah as a potential DROY given the right situation. I can easily see Gettleman coming to the conclusion that this is that kind of situation. 

[MadHatter]

8 hours ago, Growl said:

After watching a few games I'm inclined to agree. He's got the measurables but he seemingly rarely uses his hands and gets bogged down with defenders pretty often. He gets better as the game gets on though and his natural speed beats tiring OTs.

When Greg Cossell was on 610 last week, he had a few comments on Ogbah.  He said that he had potential and all the measurable, but would really need to be coached up.  He commented that he does not have violent hands and was a "leaner".  Said that when watching tape on him he very often was leaning in on the OLinemen....which kept him from getting good explosion and leverage.

[caatfan]

9 hours ago, top dawg said:

he basically only has one move as a rusher

"Ogbah’s defensive line coach at Oklahoma State says Ogbah has other moves besides his speed rush. He just didn’t need them.
“When the one you have leads the Big 12 in sacks and (is good for) top five in the nation, it’s hard to go to the second and third moves,” said Joe Bob Clements, Ogbah’s position coach with the Cowboys.
Ogbah was the NCAA’s active sacks leader with 28 at the end of last season. His 13 sacks as a redshirt junior were second behind only Penn State’s Carl Nassib (15) last fall.
Ogbah is Oklahoma State’s career leader with quarterback hurries (26) and finished fourth in sacks and tackles for loss (40).
He had at least one sack in 16 of his final 21 collegiate games. The stretch included a two-sack performance against Florida State’s Jameis Winston in the 2014 opener, Winston’s first game after winning the Heisman Trophy."

http://m.wbtv.com/wbtv/db_330726/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=swRQZsJ5&pn=&ps=#display

I don't think anyone's saying he's a polished, complete player yet, but from what I've read about him, I'm good with him as our 1st round pick.

[Bartin]

My worry with Ogbah is that even though he tested well as an athlete, he's pretty stiff in his hips and doesn't have much bend. Kony didn't test nearly as well in the explosion and straight line drills but he has the ability to bend. That's a really important trait for a DE. The one drill with the highest correlation for a success for a specific position is DE and the 20 yard short shuttle.

His lack of pass rushing moves and remedial hand usage can quickly be coached up. That doesn't worry me at all after reading about his work ethic, dedication and intelligence.

His ceiling may not be as high as you would think from just looking at his 40 and jump tests. He was pretty mediocre in the 3 cone and shuttle drills.

[top dawg]

57 minutes ago, MadHatter said:

When Greg Cossell was on 610 last week, he had a few comments on Ogbah.  He said that he had potential and all the measurable, but would really need to be coached up.  He commented that he does not have violent hands and was a "leaner".  Said that when watching tape on him he very often was leaning in on the OLinemen....which kept him from getting good explosion and leverage.

I enjoy listening to Cosell and respect his opinion,  but sometimes I just think that he is all about film and doesn't consider other intangibles like a player's propensity towards being coached,  their intelligence,  or their gradual improvement over a duration.  Moreover,  Cosell is the same guy that basically called Justin Hunter the best prospect at WR in the 2013 draft.  That being said,  he is still one of my favorites to listen to in addition to Gil Brandt,  Mike Maycock, and Bucky Brooks who said this about Ogbah:

"Strengths: Productive straight-line rusher with explosive strength and power. Ogbah overwhelms blockers with a "bull in a china shop" approach that combines violent hands with relentless spirit. The Oklahoma State standout wears opponents down with his energy and power. In addition, he runs past blockers with a sneaky burst around the corner. Given his production (24 sacks over the past two seasons) and consistent disruption, Ogbah's power-rush skills make him an intriguing candidate."

 

And FWIW,  I have also seen other people mention Ogbah's violent hands as being perhaps the most violent in football when he uses them correctly.  

[top dawg]

11 minutes ago, Bartin said:

My worry with Ogbah is that even though he tested well as an athlete, he's pretty stiff in his hips and doesn't have much bend. Kony didn't test nearly as well in the explosion and straight line drills but he has the ability to bend. That's a really important trait for a DE. The one drill with the highest correlation for a success for a specific position is DE and the 20 yard short shuttle.

His lack of pass rushing moves and remedial hand usage can quickly be coached up. That doesn't worry me at all after reading about his work ethic, dedication and intelligence.

His ceiling may not be as high as you would think from just looking at his 40 and jump tests. He was pretty mediocre in the 3 cone and shuttle drills.

We're just going to have to trust Gettleman.

Ogbah is somewhat of an enigma.  He can be mediocre.  He can be great.  When you combine his Combine numbers with his college productivity,  and then throw in his WTF-Wow tape,  and finish it off with his high character and other intangibles,  perhaps the final ingredient is NFL-level coaching. 

18 minutes ago, caatfan said:

"Ogbah’s defensive line coach at Oklahoma State says Ogbah has other moves besides his speed rush. He just didn’t need them.
“When the one you have leads the Big 12 in sacks and (is good for) top five in the nation, it’s hard to go to the second and third moves,” said Joe Bob Clements, Ogbah’s position coach with the Cowboys.
Ogbah was the NCAA’s active sacks leader with 28 at the end of last season. His 13 sacks as a redshirt junior were second behind only Penn State’s Carl Nassib (15) last fall.
Ogbah is Oklahoma State’s career leader with quarterback hurries (26) and finished fourth in sacks and tackles for loss (40).
He had at least one sack in 16 of his final 21 collegiate games. The stretch included a two-sack performance against Florida State’s Jameis Winston in the 2014 opener, Winston’s first game after winning the Heisman Trophy."

http://m.wbtv.com/wbtv/db_330726/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=swRQZsJ5&pn=&ps=#display

I don't think anyone's saying he's a polished, complete player yet, but from what I've read about him, I'm good with him as our 1st round pick.

Caatfan,  you're late to church and preaching to the choir... 

:)

[Bartin]

Just now, top dawg said:

We're just going to have to trust Gettleman.

Ogbah is somewhat of an enigma.  He can be mediocre.  He can be great.  When you combine his Combine numbers with his college productivity,  and then throw in his WTF-Wow tape,  and finish it off with his high character and other intangibles,  perhaps the final ingredient is NFL-level coaching. 

Yeah, I was just commenting that I'm less worried about how raw he is at times than I am about his lack of bend. I'd be more than happy with him at 30. If he had bend he'd be a top 10 pick. He can still be an elite player with his traits.

[caatfan]

13 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Caatfan,  you're late to church and preaching to the choir... 

I posted the link cause I quoted the article. I know it's not new. I don't go to church anymore but I am usually late to work.

[jdpanther5]

10 hours ago, top dawg said:

Stephen White said a whole helluva lot more than that. That was basically the conclusion. 

Well...yeah. Just saying when you give such a broad range for what a player could be, you can only be right. 

[AndrewLaskoski]

11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You want a list of college pass rushers with NFL ready pass rushing moves and hands?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was the list.

 

Khalil Mack says hello

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, AndrewLaskoski said:

Khalil Mack says hello

He was very raw coming into the NFL in terms of technique.  He didn't get his first sack until his 10th NFL game.

[Clicheking]

Very good read. I want to fall in love with him but just can't. His Oklahoma game was some of the worst tape I've seen, the effort just wasn't there. It scares me because you can coach talent, but not effort.....just can't figure out what to make of him, but I'll trust our coaches and front office