Norman was not a production of a system

[Proudiddy]

Just now, Bartin said:

Not really, TEs have much longer longevity than CBs do.

Can you provide statistics to confirm that?  Just off the top of my head, that doesn't seem to hold up...  i recall many corners playing well into their late 30s and/or transitioning over to safety at some point to stretch out their career even further.

Plus, specificallt in Josh's case, he didn't have a lot of mileage on him prior to the last two years and his play style was still very capable of being carried into his mid to late 30s, regardless of the expected athletic decline.

[Nick_81]

28 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Yeah, those are all the cornerstone guys I was referring to.  

I think the sticking point here is whether you, and every other poster here, viewed Josh as a cornerstone guy as well.

Well, it doesn't matter too much what I think.  I liked Norman a lot, but it's pretty obvious what Gettleman values on the team.  Front seven on defense, and OL/QB/TE(front 7?) on offense.  I don't think he viewed Josh as a cornerstone guy, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be viewed as a cornerstone somewhere.  It boils down to each particular team's building philosophy.  Seattle seems to be the opposite, pouring their money into the DB's.

[Bartin]

3 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Can you provide statistics to confirm that?  Just off the top of my head, that doesn't seem to hold up...  i recall many corners playing well into their late 30s and/or transitioning over to safety at some point to stretch out their career even further.

Plus, specificallt in Josh's case, he didn't have a lot of mileage on him prior to the last two years and his play style was still very capable of being carried into his mid to late 30s, regardless of the expected athletic decline.

Honestly, I can't provide any links to the analysis, but I have seen it broken down before. CB's are right there with RB's as far as performance drop off once they hit 30. I saw recently that there isn't a single CB on an NFL roster right now that is older than 32 and there are several TE's I know of off the top of my head(Witten, Gates, Watson) and several more in the 31-32 range.

CB isn't really a wear and tear position so I don't think that really matters much specifically in Josh's case. It's a matter of athletic decline at a position that is one of the most dependent on athleticism. With Josh already being a marginal athlete for an NFL CB, it should effect him even more since he is already borderline between being able to make the play and give up a big play a lot of the time. His instincts make up for his lack of athleticism and soon that probably won't be enough. The CB's that typically last into their mid 30's are elite athletes from the start and when they lose athleticism they make up for it with instincts and tape study. Josh was at that point from the beginning.

As far as him transitioning to safety that may be something he has to do in the next few years, but then you have to judge his value as a safety versus what it is as an elite CB. You can't really pay a safety elite CB money and have it be a good idea.

[Nick_81]

26 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Respective of position, was his age, production, etc., not comparable to Olsen at the time he recieved his most recent extension?

Not even close.  The reason being, is that Olsen has proved his value since he arrived in Carolina.  Compared to Norman's 1.5, out of four, seasons.  After Olsen's rookie season(14 games played), he's played in all 16 games every season since.  There's never been a point where he didn't do what he was supposed to do.  The more we've needed him, the more he's produced.  Far and away more valuable.  

[GoobyPls]

3 hours ago, CoastalCat said:

We went 12-4 in 2013. Check Josh's game log. Good for him getting the loot. Let's move on. 

We had  Hardy and Johnson. 

 

Everyone hedging there bet on Ealy, a guy who has never had full entire productive season. To somehow replicate the 2013 defense

 

 We basically have the same defensive personal defense from 2014, we all know what happened there.

 

[joeyxfresco]

Not our CB anymore so who cares. Whoever comes in is going benefit tremendously from Wilkes' coaching. 

[CoastalCat]

20 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

We had  Hardy and Johnson. 

 

Everyone hedging there bet on Ealy, a guy who has never had full entire productive season. To somehow replicate the 2013 defense

 

 We basically have the same defensive personal defense from 2014, we all know what happened there.

 

It's year 3, so yes, we expect a 2nd round DE to be a starter. 

I don't understand the last part. 1) Josh played in 2014. 2) Our defense was pretty good (ranked 10th), and we won a playoff game. 3) I still like our defensive personal defense.   

[GoobyPls]

33 minutes ago, CoastalCat said:

It's year 3, so yes, we expect a 2nd round DE to be a starter. 

I don't understand the last part. 1) Josh played in 2014. 2) Our defense was pretty good (ranked 10th), and we won a playoff game. 3) I still like our defensive personal defense.   

Theirs a difference from starter and all pro

 

Josh didn't start till mid season in 2014, Ironically that was when our defense turned it around. Before Norman started we were getting torched left and right

[CardiacCatZack]

1 hour ago, joeyxfresco said:

Not our CB anymore so who cares. Whoever comes in is going benefit tremendously from Wilkes' coaching. 

Boykin, I don't he's truly had a chance to flourish yet. 

[CoastalCat]

15 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Theirs a difference from starter and all pro

 

Josh didn't start till mid season in 2014, Ironically that was when our defense turned it around. Before Norman started we were getting torched left and right

He started week 8 of 2014, 1 game into a 6-game losing streak, but everyone remembers things differently.

[GoobyPls]

4 minutes ago, CoastalCat said:

He started week 8 of 2014, 1 game into a 6-game losing streak, but everyone remembers things differently.

Look at the defenses disparity when Norman started. Over a TD difference 

[gorillamilitia13]

To those who think he wasn't that great anymore or that hes a product of the system need to realize he's the best out of the products that we will see.

[CoastalCat]

No need to get nasty. I like JNo. He's really good at this. I'm not, however, going to pretend like he's the only reason the team was good, or that the sky is falling now because we're down our best corner. 

I'm also really glad we're not paying him 10% of our salary cap. A quick history lesson. Here's is the Seattle team that won the Owl. 

Seattle Seahawks salary cap outlook: Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas are bargains in the secondary

Sherman: $555k

Thomas: $2.92m

[GoobyPls]

36 minutes ago, Kuechly59 said:

Your the kind of douche that doesn't realize it was Norman,Benwikerie (coming back off injury) and Tre Boston being inserted in the line up at the same time that made the difference.

Oh yeah cause those two are all pro caliber players, with the responsibility of covering the opposings teams best reciever. 

And btw Bene was sharing snaps with Melvin White