I still know a couple people...what happened with josh

[vanilla B]

I'm kinda curious about Roman reaching out to Josh about taking a lesser deal to come back here.  Didn't we void his contract?  Why would he be trying to convince Josh to return if he's not even going to be on the team anymore?

[LinvilleGorge]

27 minutes ago, CRA said:

eh, if I don't run a man scheme....the best man to man cover corner in the game doesn't really matter to me.  We have seen great man to man cover corners go to a zone scheme and suck.

If you do X great, then you should be paid great.   If you team doesn't do Y then does it really matter how well you do Y?

Look at Cam, ask Cam to implement a Tom Brady gameplan and likely is then below average.  Why does that matter though?

It matters because of value.  Elite man cover CBs are more highly valued than zone CBs.  Kind of like how elite pass rushing DL are more highly valued than elite run stuffing DL.  It's just the way it is.

[Bronn]

3 minutes ago, vanilla B said:

I'm kinda curious about Roman reaching out to Josh about taking a lesser deal to come back here.  Didn't we void his contract?  Why would he be trying to convince Josh to return if he's not even going to be on the team anymore?

Probably because he knows we are legit gonna be in Super Bowl 51

[KSpan]

7 minutes ago, KillaCamNewton said:

Except we did fug up. 24 hours ago we had the most talented and complete roster in the league with a pro bowler at every position. Now we have a pretty glaring weakness and no longer have Hardy or a prime CJ to hide it. 

Whether we want to believe it or not, we had all the leverage. Josh could threaten to hold out but deep inside he knows he can't sit out a whole year and expect to get a good contract as a 30 year old cornerback who hadnt played a game in over a year. 

The team still has all the leverage since Carolina seems to be the place he wants to play and offers all the intangibles Josh mentioned he was looking for - the stakes are just a bit higher since negotiations are no longer exclusive.

[The Huddler]

7 minutes ago, KillaCamNewton said:

Except we did fug up. 24 hours ago we had the most talented and complete roster in the league with a pro bowler at every position. Now we have a pretty glaring weakness and no longer have Hardy or a prime CJ to hide it. 

Whether we want to believe it or not, we had all the leverage. Josh could threaten to hold out but deep inside he knows he can't sit out a whole year and expect to get a good contract as a 30 year old cornerback who hadnt played a game in over a year. 

the season doesnt start tomarrow. still time to fill holes. we have Ealy heading into his prime and well as Star and KK, and a hungry Healthy CJ who is only 30 years old. we have 32 mil in cap. that money is going to keeping our young core at positions that are high value to our identity. finding a good decipline zone corner wont be that hard to do. 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It matters because of value.  Elite man cover CBs are more highly valued than zone CBs.  Kind of like how elite pass rushing DL are more highly valued than elite run stuffing DL.  It's just the way it is.

best straight up man cover CB to play in the last 10 years was Nnamdi's stretch in Oakland IMO.  He didn't hold the same value to heavy zone teams as man teams....and that played out when he left his man Oak scheme.  Revis has played at a high level longer.  Nnamdi at his best was the best man guy of recent times.

so if all you are a zone coverage team...the best man CB doesn't have more value than the best zone CB.  Same vice versa.

and again, I go with Cam/Brady.  Depends what your offensive scheme is.....who has more value.  Vaires team to team.  

[shaqattaq]

1 hour ago, nctarheel0619 said:

I think it was a friend of his.  

WAS...

[thefuzz]

14 minutes ago, KillaCamNewton said:

Except we did fug up. 24 hours ago we had the most talented and complete roster in the league with a pro bowler at every position. Now we have a pretty glaring weakness and no longer have Hardy or a prime CJ to hide it. 

Whether we want to believe it or not, we had all the leverage. Josh could threaten to hold out but deep inside he knows he can't sit out a whole year and expect to get a good contract as a 30 year old cornerback who hadnt played a game in over a year. 

How would you feel if we lock up KK and Star long term buy using some of the money that would have gone to Josh on a 1 year rental?

 

 

[Darth Biscuit]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

Remember all those stories last year about Thomas Davis et al "taking care" of problems?

they were all josh. 

 

1 hour ago, Bronn said:

I figured this based on TD usually being the first one in Norman's ear on the sideline when he was being dumb

 

We were just discussing this today, as I can distinctly remember at LEAST 3 separate occasions last season that TD was in Josh's face on the field about different issues. 

[CatMan72]

This is "moneyball" Gettleman has a cap on the value of each position in our system and the discipline to not exceed that. It's how you build a consistent contender.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

best straight up man cover CB to play in the last 10 years was Nnamdi's stretch in Oakland IMO.  He didn't hold the same value to heavy zone teams as man teams....and that played out when he left his man Oak scheme.  Revis has played at a high level longer.  Nnamdi at his best was the best man guy of recent times.

so if all you are a zone coverage team...the best man CB doesn't have more value than the best zone CB.  Same vice versa.

and again, I go with Cam/Brady.  Depends what your offensive scheme is.....who has more value.  Vaires team to team.  

We're saying the same thing.  I'm not saying we should go out and spend a ton of money on an elite man cover guy.  It wouldn't make sense given our scheme.  My point is that Norman isn't worth what he thought he was because even though he's an elite CB, he isn't the type of CB that makes top of the market money.  It's the same reason why Short's next contract will be bigger than Star's.  Pass rushers make more money than run stuffers, same as man cover CBs make more than zone CBs.

[heel31ok]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Makes sense.  I'm not sure though that Gettleman really sent a message to everyone with this one.  I think it just confirms what I've suspected for awhile now.  Gettleman isn't going to spend big bucks in the secondary.  We're gonna spend our money on D on the front seven and look for bargain players who got our system in the secondary.  

Thats Right, the secondary is literally secondary...ThaTs how a Roman Harper extended his career...

[zacka77ack]

31 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

He'll have to kiss the ring. 

I get the sense a reconciliation is impossible. 

But that's just my own interpretation. 

See now I don't know what to believe. You're claiming that Josh's agent effed this up.  Yet Norman himself will have to kiss the ring if he wants to come back?  Those 2 things don't add up.  So I'm gonna have to call BS on your sources. Gettleman doesn't strike me as a "sins of the father" type.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

1 hour ago, CPF4LIFE said:

And at the same time it's not his fault that we don't use him that way. Rivera has a system for a long time he likes to stick to, josh got benched for a long time for not doing what he was told. He just follows the responsibilites he is given. He would probably welcome the challenge knowing him. 

Don't doubt that for a minute.  

However, the job Norman is asked to do here in Carolina is only worth about 10 million to team management.  

If Norman wants to be paid like an all purpose, lock down corner, he'll need to look elsewhere in the league for that opportunity.