$16 mil per year actually a reasonable starting point

[Ricky Spanish]

15 hours ago, Growl said:

An ideal scenario may be that Bene and Boykin perform at a high level this year and are signed to healthier long term contracts and we only go into the following season in need of a 3rd guy

I agree wholeheartedly. I'd rather have an elite front seven with two slightly above average corners at 7-8 mil per year than have an above average front seven with one Elite CB at 16 Mil per year. 

[csx]

If there is truth to the statement that the Panthers " aren’t even at the $12.5M-a-year range" it tells us quite a bit about how Gettleman's valuation on Norman. 

[zacka77ack]

18 hours ago, Catufb85 said:

First, Norman turns 30 this year

Second, Norman will turn 30 in December

Not to nitpick but Josh turns 29 this year, not 30.  He won't be 30 until well into the 2017 season. Everyone wants to talk about him falling off the cliff at 30 but we're still a ways from that magical number. Granted, were close enough that his age should be taken into consideration when discussing a long term deal but it's not as looming as people think.

[top dawg]

6 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Ok, I'll play. Firstly, I will admit that the vast majority of teams that have cap space is, well, because they don't spend money. Being fiscally responsible doesn't automatically make them bad teams. It usually signifies a teams willingness to use the draft over Free Agency. Point being, CAP space does not dictate a teams quality. IMO, it is the Powers That Be that control the CAP space. Well run teams, prosper. Badly run teams, flounder.

 

Personally, I don't think Josh is worth what he wants either. Shut down corners, are rare, and expensive. But not everyone can afford them. And others just flat out refuse to pay for them. I think Gman has a number for Josh. And am willing to bet it is close to what his actual value should be. But even at that price, there will be teams that WILL pay for Josh. His options will probably be limited, and the money may not be a whole lot more. But he should be able to beat what Gman can offer.

 

Josh has talent. He has worked his azz off to get where he is. He bet on himself, and won a 14m Franchise Tag. He deserved a long term deal, and got the tag. He has played like a champ for the last 1 1/2 years. Not a long time. But the results are there. He is one of the best, and just wants to be paid as such.

 

In Conclusion. I am of the belief that it is not necessarily the length of the deal that is the hold up. Because I don't think teams are scared off by his age. Under normal circumstances he could get a great deal. But, when you are talking about the amount of money this deal could be looking at? Then you have to be just a little bit concerned over that age factor.

 

When you are talking about 4 yrs. 40m, you can front load for insurance for any drop-off in production. But when you are talking in excess of 60m. You have to be concerned over whether that lack of production is a real threat. Josh has very little mileage. Takes care of himself. And uses his brain as well as anyone. He just may be effective well into his 30's.

 

tl/dr version. Thanks for reading. CBs are getting big money. Josh is one of the best. Going to be fun watching this play out. But to be honest. I just don't see him here next year. Barring some of that infamous Gettlemagic that is.

 

 

 

 

Good points that I largely agree with, but I will just say that Norman is really worth what other teams are willing to pay him. Gettleman's figures aren't necessarily the gold standard for the league, just the Panthers.

_________

 

Shut-down corners are a special breed, and, like it or not, they get paid handsomely. Revis broke the glass ceiling for their pay. To essentially cut one side of the field off most of the time to opposing QBs is awesome. Josh has done that for a season and a half. People need to sit back and think about that...The entire basis for his contract (talks) should probably be viewed within that context, not the context of other players at other positions because their skill is not as specialized, and, like it or not, easier to replace.

Like @iamhubby1 basically says, this whole age thing is overblown by many Huddlers. Even Rivera basically said in so many words that Josh is a young 28. Josh has basically played in earnest for about two seasons, so his body should be in good shape for the length of his next contract. And, speaking of contract, sure he is getting paid partly on what he has shown for a relatively short amount of time, but his future salary is more about what he WILL do than what he HAS done.

All this being said, the root question is whether Getty wants to pay for the services of a shut-down corner. How does this fit within Getty's general team building philosophy, and the puzzle of this specific moment and situation? Are both parties willing to compromise to get this done over the long term? If not, Norman's last season as a Panther will likely begin in August. 

[iamhubby1]

 

8 hours ago, top dawg said:

Good points that I largely agree with, but I will just say that Norman is really worth what other teams are willing to pay him. Gettleman's figures aren't necessarily the gold standard for the league, just the Panthers.

_________

 

Shut-down corners are a special breed, and, like it or not, they get paid handsomely. Revis broke the glass ceiling for their pay. To essentially cut one side of the field off most of the time to opposing QBs is awesome. Josh has done that for a season and a half. People need to sit back and think about that...The entire basis for his contract (talks) should probably be viewed within that context, not the context of other players at other positions because their skill is not as specialized, and, like it or not, easier to replace.

Like @iamhubby1 basically says, this whole age thing is overblown by many Huddlers. Even Rivera basically said in so many words that Josh is a young 28. Josh has basically played in earnest for about two seasons, so his body should be in good shape for the length of his next contract. And, speaking of contract, sure he is getting paid partly on what he has shown for a relatively short amount of time, but his future salary is more about what he WILL do than what he HAS done.

All this being said, the root question is whether Getty wants to pay for the services of a shut-down corner. How does this fit within Getty's general team building philosophy, and the puzzle of this specific moment and situation? Are both parties willing to compromise to get this done over the long term? If not, Norman's last season as a Panther will likely begin in August. 

 

I agree that Josh's WORTH is whatever he can get someone to pay him. Which is probably higher than what his true VALUE is. There will probably be a team out there that has both the money, and roster spot, that may make a run at Josh. And he may get close to what he feels he is worth. But it will defiantly be more than the perceived value that Gman has put on him. Josh may think he is worth it. The team that signs him will probably think he is worth. Gman? Not so much.

 

Gman does not set market value. But he does have a very good idea what that value is. I mean, he is paying Josh almost 14m this year, so he is willing to pay for top talent. He just won't over pay.

 

Gman has a number he thinks is fair. Josh has a number he thinks is fair. And I am sure that teams that are looking at Josh will have a number they think is fair. Josh should have some options.

 

On the flip side. What happens if no team comes close to what Josh wants? Instead of having to give up a lot to remain a Panther. What if he only has to give up a little to stay here? Would he then take less? And the biggest question of all remains. Is Gman really interested in paying Josh long term?

[thennek]

Pay K. Short.....he is much more valuable to the Panthers than Norman is.  

[CarolinaCoolin]

On March 31, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Catufb85 said:

He can justify it all he wants.  Two points I'd like to make: First, Norman turns 30 this year and although he was the best CB in the league last year he hasn't consistently played that well over years time.  To want more than $2 million dollars more than more accomplished DBs i.e. Sherman, Revis, Peterson, etc.  is still ludicrous.  Should he get paid, absolutely, but when a player of that caliber suggest that kind of figure you have to think to yourself, is he really being the team player he has been.  I compare it to any job...because that is what it is a job.  If you go the year with dominating your numbers, sales, expectations, etc.  you probably feel as though you deserve the most you can get or atleast equivalent to the "top guys." That's justifiable, but keep in mind your boss may want more than just one year performance before they really invest in you.  Highly unlikely in any field you go from "level 1 pay" and skip to "Level 3". 

Second, Norman will turn 30 in December and we all know that Gettleman hasn't had a history of shelling out big bucks to "older" players.  He had the cajones to cut Smith, DeAngelo, and Charles Johnson, all key players for the Panthers organization, before paying them big bucks.   I just don't see Gettleman dropping a $16 mill a year deal with a 30 year old cornerback.  We know he loves the Hog Mollies and I could guess that his focal point is to lock up KShort and Star.

Just my 2 cents.  At this point if Norman doesn't sign on the dotted line and holds out and becomes a distraction, I would perfectly find with Gettleman trading him.

He doesn't turn 30 until effectively the end of the season. He wouldn't be playing at 30 until the 2017-2018 season. Many players before Norman and many players after Norman play at a high level well into their 30's. 

Norman was drafted the same draft as Luke in 2012. He still has a lot of good NFL years left. This age talk is coming from the same people who get caught up about fast 40 times at the combine. 

[L-TownCat]

Will.

Not.

Happen.

[CPF4LIFE]

Like others have said I don't think it will come down to Normans age or what he has done in the past. It's all about how much gettleman values an elite corner. And people will have to deal with the fact he could make more than keek. Keek simply doesnt play a valued position on D, being a drop back LB is the equivalent of being a RB on offense, there simply is no money in the position outside of being the best at it. Also this will be Normans only large contract in his career while Keek will probably get another one down the road with already making way more in his career as of now,so it makes it even more stupid to compare the two.

[RealBitsOfPanther]

I don't blame Josh for wanting a big deal, but I just can't see DG paying him 16 mil a year. DG values Defensive line. 

[SIGCHI222]

<JNo> I want $16 million a year.