A Josh Norman holdout looming?

[Handsome Steve]

5 minutes ago, Ship said:

The way this is going, I hope we send him to the Raiders. He is going to be a disruption here.

I said this the other day to one of my friends. Seems like it's leaning to that point, hope it doesn't tho.

[CarolinaNCSU]

That 14th pick would net us a nice player...hmmm.  IF a trade were to go down for the Raiders 1st

 

14th pick - Best DE/OT/Treadwell

30th pick - Eli Apple/Kendall Fuller

5th year options on both players selected, and the saved cap space right now. Or even trade up into the Top 10. 

 

Vs.

"Possibly" only one more year of Norman. 

 

A trade for a 1st is beyond a longshot...but I know which scenario I'm choosing. 

 

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, stirs said:

We all have to make a living.  Josh is wanting as much cash as he can get, just like Cam and everyone else.  You would all do the same.

If he is wanting crazy money for real, then sign and trade with someone might be the best route.  But, we are a long way from having to hyperventilate.

At this point, it is a negotiation.  Nobody is throwing bombs yet, so I suspect we will know something before the draft.

I would think a 3 year with a 4th year option, total about 42 million would be enough

I could not agree more, but his strategy is a gamble.  If he holds out, getting a better deal next year is highly improbable and he would actually lose millions. 

[MHS831]

http://www.axonpotential.com/athletes-and-age-of-peak-performance/

This gives you some idea why you need to be cautious about signing a 28-year old athlete to a long-term deal.  Marty did the same thing with D. Williams and rarely do you get your money's worth.  Norman is peaking---and he wants the Panthers to bet that he will play at the highest level for 3-5 more seasons.  He is probably at his ceiling, and wants to be paid as one of the best for a longer period of time than he has been one of the best.  Note in the link that speed athletes (athletes that use speed to compete) across many sports start sloping downward at the same age--27. 

Most athletes that play into their 30s do so by making up for the waning physical prowess with veteran intelligence.  Does Norman have the same intelligence as a Darren Woodson?  Jerry Rice?  even a Peanut Tillman?    I do not see it, but I do not know.  I can assure you that Gettlemen has an idea.

Edited March 24, 2016 by MHS831

[top dawg]

29 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

http://www.axonpotential.com/athletes-and-age-of-peak-performance/

This gives you some idea why you need to be cautious about signing a 28-year old athlete to a long-term deal.  Marty did the same thing with D. Williams and rarely do you get your money's worth.  Norman is peaking---and he wants the Panthers to bet that he will play at the highest level for 3-5 more seasons.  He is probably at his ceiling, and wants to be paid as one of the best for a longer period of time than he has been one of the best.  Note in the link that speed athletes (athletes that use speed to compete) across many sports start sloping downward at the same age--27. 

Most athletes that play into their 30s do so by making up for the waning physical prowess with veteran intelligence.  Does Norman have the same intelligence as a Darren Woodson?  Jerry Rice?  even a Peanut Tillman?    I do not see it, but I do not know.  I can assure you that Gettlemen has an idea.

I think that you may be overlooking Josh's football IQ a bit.  He is an athlete to be sure, but is he really among the elite athletic corners? With speed for example, he isn't the fastest or the quickest guy, and when he first came into the league you could see it (especially with some bad angles and overpursuit). It is his film study and willingness to invest in technique that has made him one of the league's top corners today.

[GoobyPls]

6 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Direct responses to your discourse above in bold:

Your last point is the most valid, but reconstructing deals prolongs the inevitable and never saves the team money--it usually costs the team more.  I would give him top 5 money--but guarantee less than 50% and make it front loaded.  Norman probably wants top dollar, guaranteed at 60% or higher.  Gettlemen is not stupid, and he is not going to sell the farm for a position that, in the current system, can be replaced.  It is about asset allocation.  Fundamentally, we will pay for certain positions, but will not be held hostage by a CB.  I want him re-signed, but an athlete that relies on speed peaks at 27.  Norman will be 28.  He is playing great right now, but it is not predicting the future to realize that his athleticism will diminish. That is certain.  No crystal ball needed.  No psychic reading.  It happens to every single athlete.  All of them.  So YOU are predicting that it will not happen to him in the next 4 years--that he will defy the odds like a very few exceptions have.  THAT is predicting the future.  Would you put $50 million on the fact that his skills will not diminish and he will not be worse in 3-4 years than he is now?   I would not.  He wants 4 years of top $$$.  Again, trust Gettlemen.  He is not going to regret a deal in 2018 he made in 2016. 

 

If YOUR gonna be the grammar police in a forum were have the people are half assing more power to you.

 

You keep making these assumption that Norman's career is all down hill from here, how the hell can you be so sure when I just gave 4 examples of guys who all played well in there 30s. And no Revis and Ty Law were not great athletes they have always been more technically sound than anything else.

 

Offensive coordinators are gonna study him? Wtf

So are you saying after giving up ZERO TD in 2014 NFL OC weren't taking notice of him until now? Really?

The Giants changed their entire game plan when they went against Norman, they had Beckham coming out of the backfield, The Falcons used Julio as the Y receiver when he usually plays X when the face Norman. 

 

Last year our pass rush was so bad Norman was the main one keeping our D afloat especially when Luke was out.

 

And no reconstructing a contract usually means more guaranteed money which is better for the cap

[The Lone Panther]

6 hours ago, TheRed said:

If he wants to actually compete, and win, particularly for a championship, get a deal done here.

He can talk about L.A. as much as he wants, the Raiders aren't going to be doing jackshit for awhile. Even he knows this.

I disagree.  The Raiders have been slowly improving.  

[ctrcat]

4 hours ago, CarolinaNCSU said:

That 14th pick would net us a nice player...hmmm.  IF a trade were to go down for the Raiders 1st

 

14th pick - Best DE/OT/Treadwell

30th pick - Eli Apple/Kendall Fuller

5th year options on both players selected, and the saved cap space right now. Or even trade up into the Top 10. 

 

Vs.

"Possibly" only one more year of Norman. 

 

A trade for a 1st is beyond a longshot...but I know which scenario I'm choosing. 

 

It's not a long shot.  Again Revis fetched #13 overall plus a conditional 3rd/4th at the same age.  They'd guarantee themselves a first team All-Pro vs the "lotto" of this mediocre draft class by all accounts.  Would be a win/win and I'd take it straight up.

Edited March 24, 2016 by ctrcat

[ctrcat]

6 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

"I'm loving the sun out here" is not a nod to LA. It is a nod to the Raiders, who are interested in him. 

By the way, it's sunny and 70s in CLT this week too.

Edited March 24, 2016 by ctrcat

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, CarolinaNCSU said:

That 14th pick would net us a nice player...hmmm.  IF a trade were to go down for the Raiders 1st

14th pick - Best DE/OT/Treadwell

30th pick - Eli Apple/Kendall Fuller

5th year options on both players selected, and the saved cap space right now. Or even trade up into the Top 10. 

Vs.

"Possibly" only one more year of Norman. 

A trade for a 1st is beyond a longshot...but I know which scenario I'm choosing. 

If it happens, it may not necessarily be this year's draft.

They have up to July 15th to work something out before it becomes 'this deal or nothing'.  The Raiders could possibly put off signing a deal until after the draft so that they don't have to give up any picks until next year, with the hope for them being that next year's picks will be lower.

Mind you, that could backfire and they could actually wind up giving away an even higher pick instead, but teams tend to bet on themselves (same as players do).

[ctrcat]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If it happens, it may not necessarily be this year's draft.

They have up to July 15th to work something out before it becomes 'this deal or nothing'.  The Raiders could possibly put off signing a deal until after the draft so that they don't have to give up any picks until next year, with the hope for them being that next year's picks will be lower.

Mind you, that could backfire and they could actually wind up giving away an even higher pick instead, but teams tend to bet on themselves (same as players do).

At which case #*ll no.  We're also trying to win the whole thing this year.  No way I'm not having JNo OR a first rounder in our quest.

Edit:perhaps you mean they sign him and give us the two firsts.  Ok.  But #*ll no to a trade after this draft.

Edited March 24, 2016 by ctrcat

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, ctrcat said:

At which case #*ll no.  We're also trying to win the whole thing this year.  No way I'm not having JNo OR a first rounder in our quest.

Depends on what they offer.

If it's a blockbuster deal, I doubt we match it.  Compensation would be their next two first rounders unless they negotiated something else (like a first and third in the same year).

[Mr. Scot]

And now for a little "flipside" thinking...

It's also true that as you get closer to the draft, teams tend to get more into "wheel and deal" mode.

So it's possible that is the Raiders or another team really covet Norman, Draft Week (or even Draft Day) might be the time that they get something done.

It's definitely gonna be interesting to watch.

[ctrcat]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And now for a little "flipside" thinking...

It's also true that as you get closer to the draft, teams tend to get more into "wheel and deal" mode.

So it's possible that is the Raiders or another team really covet Norman, Draft Week (or even Draft Day) might be the time that they get something done.

It's definitely gonna be interesting to watch.

Exactly and why GMan needs to know just as much about the Jalen Ramsey's and Joey Bosa's as he does about the Kevin Dodd's and Derrick Henry's.  I trust he does.