It's Been a Slow Free Agency For Us...Or Has It?

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

crabtree had a hair under twice as many catches as ted ginn with like 190 more yards.  i admit he would have been a nice get for what he's being paid but he wouldn't have been the consistent deep threat we needed.

[KSpan]

56 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Actually I'm pretty much dead on before Norv took over he had 339 and 348 carries the two previous seasons then it kept going down hill for LT in 09 he had the least amount of carries per game he has ever had since being drafted

 

Wait wait wait you think Jacob Hester was a prototypical full back? Wow

 

My point still stands the Vikings offense was the complete opposite of ours

You're not dead on at all - a reduction of 20-30 carries when the RB is still getting 300+ is nothing. I'll give you 2009 as his pace was for 250+ carries, but that was 1 year out of 3 and injuries played a significant factor and had the lowest YPC of his career. And yes, Hester was the fullback, particularly when Tolbert racked up 180 and 120 carries in 2010 and 2011 as an HB. Living in KC, several SD games are on each year and I always paid attention to Hester (and fullbacks in general, as I like the position) - this is why your post caught my eye as being incorrect. I never said Hester was a good fullback - just that he was used in that role rather than Tolbert.

I'm not commenting about the Minnesota offense as I don't have any insight.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

You're not dead on at all - a reduction of 20-30 carries when the RB is still getting 300+ is nothing. I'll give you 2009 as his pace was for 250+ carries, but that was 1 year out of 3 and injuries played a significant factor and had the lowest YPC of his career. And yes, Hester was the fullback, particularly when Tolbert racked up 180 and 120 carries in 2010 and 2011 as an HB. Living in KC, several SD games are on each year and I always paid attention to Hester (and fullbacks in general, as I like the position) - this is why your post caught my eye as being incorrect. I never said Hester was a good fullback - just that he was used in that role rather than Tolbert.

I'm not commenting about the Minnesota offense as I don't have any insight.

If you've watched a lot of Charger games, you might have more insight than you think.

Norv Turner is the Vikings OC.

[GoobyPls]

15 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

How many points per game did we score last year?

Do we have a 1st round WR coming back this season that had 1000 yards and 9 TD's as a rookie?

Mike Wallace is a locker room cancer, why the hell would you bring him in here?

We would have scored those points with any receiving core in the nfl, how many drops did we have? How many dropped TD? What about the lack of YAC?

 

Wallace is a locker room cancer according to who? The Dolphins? Everyone has problems in Miami

 

Just cause we got Kelvin back doesn't mean we can't upgrade the other receivers.

[GoobyPls]

27 minutes ago, KSpan said:

You're not dead on at all - a reduction of 20-30 carries when the RB is still getting 300+ is nothing. I'll give you 2009 as his pace was for 250+ carries, but that was 1 year out of 3 and injuries played a significant factor and had the lowest YPC of his career. And yes, Hester was the fullback, particularly when Tolbert racked up 180 and 120 carries in 2010 and 2011 as an HB. Living in KC, several SD games are on each year and I always paid attention to Hester (and fullbacks in general, as I like the position) - this is why your post caught my eye as being incorrect. I never said Hester was a good fullback - just that he was used in that role rather than Tolbert.

I'm not commenting about the Minnesota offense as I don't have any insight.

Nothing? That's a whole game if not 2 games worth of carries.

 

Hester was also used in the Tolbert role, he's not a legit FB in anyway shape or form.

 

My whole premise is that the Vikings don't run our offense, the Vikings offense is pretty bland Norv had to change his playbook to fit Teddy and had to call more running plays than he ever did in SD since AP started complaining.

[iamhubby1]

4 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Nothing? That's a whole game if not 2 games worth of carries.

 

Hester was also used in the Tolbert role, he's not a legit FB in anyway shape or form.

 

My whole premise is that the Vikings don't run our offense, the Vikings offense is pretty bland Norv had to change his playbook to fit Teddy and had to call more running plays than he ever did in SD since AP started complaining.

 

Anything over 300 carries is in the danger zone. 250 - 300 is what you look for. LT pretty much averaged in the range his whole career. Which by the way. Is the amount AP gets now that Norv is in Minny. Minny still throws the ball for Norv. They just don't go deep as much. Well because of Teddy, as you have said. It's still the same Offense. Just less vertical stuff. And of course without the Read Option stuff.

 

In short. Minny is us. Just in a mini version. Ha ha. Get what I did there?

 

In conclusion. Yes Norv adjusted his Offense to meet the talent requirements in Minny. But, he did not change his philosophy. He just toned it down, dialed it back, reeled it in. He had Teddy, who is limited. He couldn't call the same plays he did for Rivers. That however, did not change who he is as an OC.

 

As for WR. Maybe we could have addressed the WR corp. last year. Losing KB hurt. But this year? Not so much. We have to find out what Fun Fun can do. So he ain't going anywhere. Ginn Jr.? There are few players in the NFL that can do what he does. (Sure he could use more consistency in regards to his catching ability.) But there are fewer still that can do what Ginn Jr. can do, and fit into not only our locker room, but the cap as well.

 

We have way too many kids coming into their 2nd contracts. We just cannot afford to use our hard earned cap space trying to improve the WR corp. Especially when you consider that KB, Fun Fun, and Teddy are a damm fine top of the corp.. Tons of teams, and millions of fans, would be over joyed to have those 3 on their team.

 

That said. I would still like to add a Slot Reciever to the mix. Anyone that can be productive is fine with me. I don't care if it is your mama. If she can be productive? I'll take her. 

[GoobyPls]

6 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Anything over 300 carries is in the danger zone. 250 - 300 is what you look for. LT pretty much averaged in the range his whole career. Which by the way. Is the amount AP gets now that Norv is in Minny. Minny still throws the ball for Norv. They just don't go deep as much. Well because of Teddy, as you have said. It's still the same Offense. Just less vertical stuff. And of course without the Read Option stuff.

 

In short. Minny is us. Just in a mini version. Ha ha. Get what I did there?

 

In conclusion. Yes Norv adjusted his Offense to meet the talent requirements in Minny. But, he did not change his philosophy. He just toned it down, dialed it back, reeled it in. He had Teddy, who is limited. He couldn't call the same plays he did for Rivers. That however, did not change who he is as an OC.

 

As for WR. Maybe we could have addressed the WR corp. last year. Losing KB hurt. But this year? Not so much. We have to find out what Fun Fun can do. So he ain't going anywhere. Ginn Jr.? There are few players in the NFL that can do what he does. (Sure he could use more consistency in regards to his catching ability.) But there are fewer still that can do what Ginn Jr. can do, and fit into not only our locker room, but the cap as well.

 

We have way too many kids coming into their 2nd contracts. We just cannot afford to use our hard earned cap space trying to improve the WR corp. Especially when you consider that KB, Fun Fun, and Teddy are a damm fine top of the corp.. Tons of teams, and millions of fans, would be over joyed to have those 3 on their team.

 

That said. I would still like to add a Slot Reciever to the mix. Anyone that can be productive is fine with me. I don't care if it is your mama. If she can be productive? I'll take her. 

LT numbers declined once Turner got there, not only did they decline he pretty much stopped using the I formation, AP got more carries this season than LT ever got in Turner's system, mainly cause AP forced Turner's hand .

 

Believe me if you saw the Vikings play the first couple of weeks you could see how Turner quickly changed his philosophy, also keep in mind good old Jeff Davidson was the OL coach, I know he had some input on Turners mindset and you know what type of offense Davidson liked. And to further prove my point the Vikings hired Pat Shurmer a west coast system guy this off season, it look like Norv is in for a complete over haul. 

 

As for the receivers the numbers were glaringly bad, we lapped the field in yards lost to drops and were second in dropped TD one of the 5 worst in YAC. I think Ginn is just to unreliable plus  he's getting old and losing speed, Funchess is still an unkown in IMO, he couldn't even beat out Cotchery for playing time he might be a year  or two away from really coming into his own. KB is coming off a serious injury I'm kind of worried he won't be the same for at least half the season.

 

My whole thought process was to bring in a legit deep threat to put across Benajamin and let Funchess work the slot to keep bringing him along slowly

[iamhubby1]

45 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

LT numbers declined once Turner got there, not only did they decline he pretty much stopped using the I formation, AP got more carries this season than LT ever got in Turner's system, mainly cause AP forced Turner's hand .

 

Believe me if you saw the Vikings play the first couple of weeks you could see how Turner quickly changed his philosophy, also keep in mind good old Jeff Davidson was the OL coach, I know he had some input on Turners mindset and you know what type of offense Davidson liked. And to further prove my point the Vikings hired Pat Shurmer a west coast system guy this off season, it look like Norv is in for a complete over haul. 

 

As for the receivers the numbers were glaringly bad, we lapped the field in yards lost to drops and were second in dropped TD one of the 5 worst in YAC. I think Ginn is just to unreliable plus  he's getting old and losing speed, Funchess is still an unkown in IMO, he couldn't even beat out Cotchery for playing time he might be a year  or two away from really coming into his own. KB is coming off a serious injury I'm kind of worried he won't be the same for at least half the season.

 

My whole thought process was to bring in a legit deep threat to put across Benajamin and let Funchess work the slot to keep bringing him along slowly

 

Ok then try this. As far back as you can remember, and farther back if you care to investigate, Norv Turner has run pretty much the same Offense. It is what he was taught, because it was what he wanted to do offensively. It is his philosophy on how an offense should run. Now just because things are different in Minny. Does not mean Turner's core values have changed.

 

If Shurmur does anything in Minny it is to teach Norv the short passing game. Teddy can't be trusted down field. At least not yet. So Turner is adjusting his philosophy to suit the talent. Let me repeat that. It is a coaching adjustment. It is not a change in philosophy.

 

About those WRs. Last year KB not being there hurt. And hurt badly. Cam may have evolved into a better QB, but he did so with inferior talent. I could argue for a Vet in that scenario. But that was last year.

 

If you are going to grow your own. And that is our philosophy. We absolutely have to see what Fun Fun can do in his 2nd year. There is no reason to bring in a Vet to take reps away from him. As for Ginn Jr., If he was more consistent, would couldn't afford him. We shouldn't count on a rookie, and we really can't afford a decent Vet. We have to see what we have. And that encompasses the whole team.

 

We have a boat load of kids. The only way to evaluate them is through playing. There may be some growing pains along the way. But that is what this year is shaping up as. Cuz I ain't so sure that other than the draft, we are pretty much done with the signings. At least until after the draft.

 

I got carried away. Nothing new there. But the points are valid. Turner was brought in precisely for his Offensive philosophy. Unfortunately, Teddy can't run it. Yet anyway. We could be twins. And I know it sux. But the WR position, barring a draft pick, is pretty much set.

 

I will tell you there is a Silver lining for you. If the kids don't show out this year. And we need to reload. We just might use more FA than usual next year. But alas, that is next year.

[GoobyPls]

1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Ok then try this. As far back as you can remember, and farther back if you care to investigate, Norv Turner has run pretty much the same Offense. It is what he was taught, because it was what he wanted to do offensively. It is his philosophy on how an offense should run. Now just because things are different in Minny. Does not mean Turner's core values have changed.

 

If Shurmur does anything in Minny it is to teach Norv the short passing game. Teddy can't be trusted down field. At least not yet. So Turner is adjusting his philosophy to suit the talent. Let me repeat that. It is a coaching adjustment. It is not a change in philosophy.

 

About those WRs. Last year KB not being there hurt. And hurt badly. Cam may have evolved into a better QB, but he did so with inferior talent. I could argue for a Vet in that scenario. But that was last year.

 

If you are going to grow your own. And that is our philosophy. We absolutely have to see what Fun Fun can do in his 2nd year. There is no reason to bring in a Vet to take reps away from him. As for Ginn Jr., If he was more consistent, would couldn't afford him. We shouldn't count on a rookie, and we really can't afford a decent Vet. We have to see what we have. And that encompasses the whole team.

 

We have a boat load of kids. The only way to evaluate them is through playing. There may be some growing pains along the way. But that is what this year is shaping up as. Cuz I ain't so sure that other than the draft, we are pretty much done with the signings. At least until after the draft.

 

I got carried away. Nothing new there. But the points are valid. Turner was brought in precisely for his Offensive philosophy. Unfortunately, Teddy can't run it. Yet anyway. We could be twins. And I know it sux. But the WR position, barring a draft pick, is pretty much set.

 

I will tell you there is a Silver lining for you. If the kids don't show out this year. And we need to reload. We just might use more FA than usual next year. But alas, that is next year.

Well the off season isn't over yet we still have more than enough money, for all we know we make a trade. Well just see how it plays out 

[iamhubby1]

17 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Well the off season isn't over yet we still have more than enough money, for all we know we make a trade. Well just see how it plays out 

 

We are close to 20m under the cap at this time. We have Stah and KK we need to deal with. How much money do you think that is going to cost? Stah gets 6m this year. But it goes up to 7 next year. KK is going to get more than that. So at minimum. You are looking at around 17m next year. So we really don't have much money to throw around.

 

KB, Fun Fun, Trai, Norwell, Boston, Shaq, Williams, and Ealy are looking at their 2nd contracts in the next few years. Not counting Boston, Philly, McClain, Mayo. Guys you have decisions to make with as well. Throw in this years draft, and the rest of the kids, and you have a poo ton of kids you have to either sign, or decide if you want to sign.

 

We need our money for our own. And thanks to Gman. We have a poo ton of "Our Own".

 

Have you been paying attention to what Gman has said the last few days. "We grow our own". Every FA you bring in takes reps away from a kid. And as you know. The kids are the future.

[GoobyPls]

11 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

We are close to 20m under the cap at this time. We have Stah and KK we need to deal with. How much money do you think that is going to cost? Stah gets 6m this year. But it goes up to 7 next year. KK is going to get more than that. So at minimum. You are looking at around 17m next year. So we really don't have much money to throw around.

 

KB, Fun Fun, Trai, Norwell, Boston, Shaq, Williams, and Ealy are looking at their 2nd contracts in the next few years. Not counting Boston, Philly, McClain, Mayo. Guys you have decisions to make with as well. Throw in this years draft, and the rest of the kids, and you have a poo ton of kids you have to either sign, or decide if you want to sign.

 

We need our money for our own. And thanks to Gman. We have a poo ton of "Our Own".

 

Have you been paying attention to what Gman has said the last few days. "We grow our own". Every FA you bring in takes reps away from a kid. And as you know. The kids are the future.

By your logic no team would ever sign free agents, more than half those guys aren't even living up to their current contract much less deserve extensions.

 

The cap will increase next year thus giving us more room as long we don't go over the limit we don't have to roll into next season with that much cap space.

 

The nfl is a win now league, it's called Not For Long for a reason. We are not a rebuilding team, we are a team a ready to compete right now if a FA is available that can put us over the hump now you do it. Cam has already shown that he can carry this team with a mediocre weapons so we will be competitive no matter the cap situation we get into, so while we have space theirs nothing wrong with a reaching for someone in free agency.

[Mr. Scot]

16 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

And to further prove my point the Vikings hired Pat Shurmer a west coast system guy this off season, it look like Norv is in for a complete over haul.

He's their tight ends Coach, not an OC or a passing game coordinator.  Teams don't "completely overhaul" their system when they hire a position coach.

But what makes your suggestion that Shurmur proves the Vikings system is so much different than ours look even dumber is the fact that we've talked about adding him to our own staff twice in the last three years.

We interviewed Shurmur for our offensive coordinator position back in January 2013 (link) and then called him again about joining our staff just two months ago.

 

Quote

NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports Eagles OC Pat Shurmur will interview with the Vikings.

It's unclear which job Shurmur is interviewing for, as running backs coach is the Vikings' only vacancy. Shurmur could be drawing interest as a "passing game coordinator," the same position he's in the mix for in Los Angeles. Shurmur has also received calls from the Ravens and Panthers.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Jan 21 - 1:18 PM

Funny how a guy who somehow despite being only a TE coach somehow portends a 'complete overhaul' on their staff was a guy we tried to add to out staff just this January.  guess we must have been looking at a complete overhaul too.

Good grief, you're terrible at this!

[GoobyPls]

11 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's their tight ends Coach, not an OC or a passing game coordinator.  Teams don't "completely overhaul" their system when they hire a position coach.

But what makes your suggestion that Shurmur proves the Vikings system is so much different than ours look even dumber is the fact that we've talked about adding him to our own staff twice in the last three years.

We interviewed Shurmur for our offensive coordinator position back in January 2013 (link) and then called him again about joining our staff just two months ago.

 

Funny how a guy who somehow despite being only a TE coach somehow portends a 'complete overhaul' on their staff was a guy we tried to add to out staff just this January.  guess we must have been looking at a complete overhaul too.

Good grief, you're terrible at this!

Yeah I'm sure the Vikings brought him "only" to be their TE coach, nothing to do with the fact that he's been a west coast guy forever, nothing to do with the fact that Teddy was a west coast QB in college, nothing to do with the fact that Norv had to change his coaching style to fit Teddy strengths. 

 

The hard head whose never watched a vikings game is still holding on to his opinion, what a surprise 

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Yeah I'm sure the Vikings brought him "only" to be their TE coach, nothing to do with the fact that he's been a west coast guy forever, nothing to do with the fact that Teddy was a west coast QB in college, nothing to do with the fact that Norv had to change his coaching style to fit Teddy strengths. 

The hard head whose never watched a vikings game is still holding on to his opinion, what a surprise 

So why did we bring him in, eh?

Yes, the Vikings only brought in Shurmur as a TE coach, whereas we interviewed him for our OC in 2013 and likely as a passing game coordinator type role just two months ago.

You're so bad at this it's laughable.