Panthers free agent possibilities/predictions

[heel31ok]

5 hours ago, KB_fan said:

It may be pointless, but here are the season snap counts of non-Hurney guys on our Super Bowl team.  (Gettleman guys in blue):

DEFENSIVE ENDS

Kony Ealy — 739

Jared Allen — 627

Charles Johnson — 490

Mario Addison — 449

Ryan Delaire — 246

Wes Horton — 197

 

DEFENSIVE TACKLES

Kawann Short — 897

Star Lotulelei — 633

Dwan Edwards — 447

Kyle Love — 343

Colin Cole — 49

 

LINEBACKERS

Thomas Davis — 1,159

Luke Kuechly — 951

Shaq Thompson — 442

A.J. Klein — 326

Ben Jacobs — 35

 

CORNERBACKS

Josh Norman — 1,243

Bené Benwikere — 786

Charles Tillman — 670

Cortland Finnegan — 357

Robert McClain — 225

Teddy Williams — 68

 

SAFETIES

Kurt Coleman — 1,199

Roman Harper — 1,070

Tre Boston — 282

Colin Jones — 158

Dean Marlowe — 9

 

Totals on Defense:   9200 snaps Gettleman players / 4897 Hurney players

 

QUARTERBACKS

Cam Newton — 1,284

Derek Anderson — 31

Joe Webb — 19

 

RUNNING BACKS

Jonathan Stewart — 718

Mike Tolbert — 520

Fozzy Whittaker — 181

Cameron Artis-Payne — 122

Brandon Wegher — 2

 

WIDE RECEIVERS

Philly Brown — 884

Ted Ginn — 813

Devin Funchess — 587

Jerricho Cotchery — 528

Brenton Bersin — 99

Kevin Norwood — 13

 

TIGHT ENDS

Greg Olsen — 1,263

Ed Dickson — 707

Scott Simonson — 33

Brandon Williams — 6

Richie Brockel — 3

 

OFFENSIVE LINE

OT Mike Remmers — 1,315

OT Michael Oher — 1,297

G Trai Turner — 1,287

C Ryan Kalil — 1,203

G Andrew Norwell — 1,006

G Amini Silatolu — 238

OL Fernando Velasco — 114

OL Chris Scott — 109

OT Daryl Williams — 83

 

TOTAL for Offense:  9344 Gettleman  /   5121 Hurney

Total snaps:  65% Gettleman / 35% Hurney

There's no denying that Hurney had a big hand in shaping our 2015 Super Bowl contending team.    He drafted / acquired many of our biggest stars / franchise faces:  Cam, Luke, TD, Greg, Josh, Ryan Kalil, J Stew - all pro bowlers - without whom we would not have gone 17-2.  But as so many have said, these players alone do not a team make.  Of the 55 players listed above, Gettleman acquired 40, Hurney 15.   No one is trying to deny that Hurney drafted / acquire some great talented players, but G'man shaped the team around them.  We won AS A TEAM.  We needed all 55 of those guys.

 

Dropbthe     ....still see a great foundation from Hurney...

[johnnydefence]

Our big free agent acquisition isn't even in the top 50 FA. 

[KB_fan]

Charles Johnson is #28.  That's pretty big!  Especially BIG VALUE!

[GoobyPls]

19 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's the fun of it, kid. I don't have to "put words in your mouth" to make you look dumb. You do that on your own.

Just like I thought avoid the real issue and keep back tracking 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

my god are we still doing the "buh buh hurney's cooorrrrrrrreeeee!" poo?

yeah he drafted some good players.  for every luke kuechly or cam newton there were two armanti edwards, joe adams, everette browns, dwayne jarretts, and on and on.  he made some outrageously stupid trades and his fetish for accounting tricks which dumped prorated money on the ass end of a ton of his contracts got us in the pickle we were in in 2013 and 2014.. 

his real downfall was his inability to fill out the bottom half of the roster which is something gettleman has proven himself to be adept at.  we did have some star power at the top of the depth chart in the hurney years but our rosters were paper thin which is a problem in the NFL where injuries are an utter inevitability.  i mean look at the 09/10/11 drafts-they're all horrible save for cam in '11.  this team was talent starved and up against the cap every year.

hurney sucked and dave gettleman is at the very least a good NFL gm.  it's time to accept it and get over your butthurt about steve smith being released.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

oh and re: the broncos since i've seen it brought up

they are in a completely different situation than we are.  they don't have an ascendant star quarterback who is just entering the prime of his career.  they were selling out to win a super bowl with the knowledge that they'd crash into rebuilding mode the second after manning hung it up, and that's what's happening.

there's another draft coming up which means the panthers are about to get deeper and more talented.  there are going to be no dumbass hail mary trades, we're not going to sell a dollar next year for 50 cents today, and we're not going to trade up and get whatever wide receiver you're masturbating to this year.  all the media outlets are going to give our draft the usual C+ and life will go on.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

aw yeah, the dreaded triple post-

another way that they're different?  hurney would have never done what gettleman did with charles johnson.  he wouldn't have had the balls to ask him to take a pay cut then him loose and have him test the market.  he might have possibly pulled off that hurney mainstay of converting salary to signing bonus which would make his contract even more burdensome down the road but that's it.

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, The NFL Shield At Midfield said:

there's another draft coming up which means the panthers are about to get deeper and more talented.  there are going to be no dumbass hail mary trades, we're not going to sell a dollar next year for 50 cents today, and we're not going to trade up and get whatever wide receiver you're masturbating to this year.  all the media outlets are going to give our draft the usual C+ and life will go on.

And at the end of the season the same issues from the past 3 years that keep the Panthers down will arise. Where are the WRs that can catch a ball? Where is the RB who can take the torch? Where are the OTs that make a difference? When will we have a consistent DE again? Why do the safeties keep getting attacked and embarrassed by legit NFL passing games? When will the Panthers finally have quality CBs outside of Josh Norman instead of signing someone off the street to step in late into the season?

Something tells me it may be another 3 years before the Panthers even come close to answering any of these questions. Until then we must hope the top 10 to 15 players on this team can carry them deep into the playoffs without much help.

As for the draft, I expect another year of 4 to 5 draft picks with 2 picks that will not be all pro caliber and find little to no playing time while showing a ton of potential but no consistency. The remaining draft picks will be cut or sit on the bench and be a non factor.

When it comes to free agency, I expect nothing more than retreads and serviceable players to be added to plug holes to start the season only to be cut later in the season or replaced by free agents off the street.

I expect Cam, Olsen, Kalil, Tolbert and Stewart to carry the offense. I expect Luke, Davis, Norman, Star, and KK to carry the defense.

Star and KK are the only players added to this team over the past 3 seasons that factor into the game for the Panthers. KB was on his way, and I do not expect much of him this season coming back from the ACL with the style of play he relies on. I am hoping for big things from KB if he can get through 2016 healthy. All the other players could be swapped out for street free agents and old vets on their last leg and the Panthers would be the same if not better.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

You've chosen to ignore content by CPantherKing. Options

and for good reason

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

god i can't help myself.  why do you post such tantalizingly bizarre poo cpantherking

And at the end of the season the same issues from the past 3 years that keep the Panthers down will arise. Where are the WRs that can catch a ball? Where is the RB who can take the torch? Where are the OTs that make a difference? When will we have a consistent DE again? Why do the safeties keep getting attacked and embarrassed by legit NFL passing games? When will the Panthers finally have quality CBs outside of Josh Norman instead of signing someone off the street to step in late into the season?

as everyone knows our top wide receiver was injured in training camp leaving ted ginn, jerricho cotchery, and some young guys in funchess and corey brown.  funchess is still developing although he came on strong near the end of the season.  cotchery was a stop gap on his way out which is something commonly utilized when a GM is rebuilding an entire corps in the wake of the greatest player in franchise history being cut (which proves to be an even better decision with each passing year).  you probably think we should have done something similar to what the packers did which allowed them to survive the loss of jordy nelson, right?  more on that later.

"Where is the RB who can take the torch?"

how are we even supposed to know that?  stewart and tolbert got most of the carries.  cameron artist payne was ripping apart the falcons when we played them and i'll never understand why rivera and shula took the ball out of his hands.  running back is a position that just doesn't have a ton of value in the NFL anymore.  it's kind of acknowledged now that they're more a product of the offensive line than anything else.

"When will we have a consistent DE again?"

well based on kony ealy's super bowl performance and charles johnson's work in the playoffs probably soon.  our best pass rusher by far on the 2015 panthers was kawann short and you know who drafted him.

"Why do the safeties keep getting attacked and embarrassed by legit NFL passing games?"

yeah we need to upgrade at FS.  that's one so far!

"When will the Panthers finally have quality CBs outside of Josh Norman instead of signing someone off the street to step in late into the season?"

we lost two of our top three CBs which would hurt any team.  benewikere was playing at a high level outside as a rookie but was moved to nickel to account for tillman manning the outside.  that was a coaching decision and had nothing to do with gettleman.  bene will compete for the other outside CB spot opposite norman whose replacement will probably be drafted this year assuming that he can't be locked up long term. 

you keep bringing up "signing someone off the street" as if it's something strange that only the panthers have been forced to do.  it's either that or calling someone up from the practice squad.  if the moves end up working out even adequately then what's the problem?  again with this weird notion of yours that everybody else other than the panthers is stacked five deep at every position.

"Where are the OTs that make a difference?"

4 out of 5 of the linemen on PFF's number two ranked pass blocking line were either drafted or brought in by gettleman.  oher played well above expectations and remmers' replacement is on the roster.  what do you mean by "make a difference" anyway.  this is just word salad.

Something tells me it may be another 3 years before the Panthers even come close to answering any of these questions. Until then we must hope the top 10 to 15 players on this team can carry them deep into the playoffs without much help.

it won't be another three years.  to anybody with any sense most of those questions were answered in 2015.  we're a team with a strong core of drafted players that we like to develop and retain.  holes are plugged with value signings in FA who perform well above their contracts.  that's a recipe for a good team and it's what the year-in, year-out championship contenders do.  big spenders like the broncos are outliers and a product of their QB situation as i explained before.

also the top 10-15 players on a team carrying them sounds pretty typical.  15/22 is, uh, most of the starters who should logically be the best players if my math is correct.

As for the draft, I expect another year of 4 to 5 draft picks with 2 picks that will not be all pro caliber and find little to no playing time while showing a ton of potential but no consistency. The remaining draft picks will be cut or sit on the bench and be a non factor.

"2 picks that will not be all pro caliber"

how on earth is this some kind of barometer for the quality of a draft.  i'd say even the best GMs have drafts every year that have 2 players that aren't all pro and find little to no playing time.  and they may not even show a ton of potential.  you know what an inconsistent young player with potential but inconsistent performance gets?  it's this little thing called coaching and it's been known to help players become more consistent as they transition from college to the pros.

i know you're an advocate of the shotgun method where you go into the draft with a dozen picks in the middle rounds and just start throwing poo on the wall in the hope that something sticks.  no team is a million deep at every position, not even your beloved ted thompson who drafts a shitload of players in the middle of the draft every year can do that.  remember before the 2015 season how the packers lost jordy nelson and everybody said it didn't matter because they had davante adams and randall cobb and were so deep at wideout?  and then packer fans wanted to kill their GM midseason because it didn't pan out that way?  i will say jeff janis looked good in that playoff game where he had more touchdowns and receiving yards than he had in the entire regular season though.

When it comes to free agency, I expect nothing more than retreads and serviceable players to be added to plug holes to start the season only to be cut later in the season or replaced by free agents off the street.

all the good teams with good talent evaluators do this.  they lock up their own players and fill the bottom of the roster with value pickups and stopgaps who are interchangeable.  you know why they're interchangeable and perform at roughly the same level (ie good enough to help win the conference) when they're brought in?  because our talent evaluation is good.  it's like you forgot that we got to 15-1 and won three straight division titles and a conference championship with this approach.

Star and KK are the only players added to this team over the past 3 seasons that factor into the game for the Panthers.

i got heart palpitations and my eyes dilated when i saw this.

have you ever heard of trai turner?  andrew norwell?  bene benewikere? kelvin benjamin?  (well i'll give you that one because you mentioned how his style of play means he's not going to come back well from his ACL injury whatever that means)  AJ klein who held things down admirably when luke kuechly was injured?  what on earth is wrong with you?

those are just draft picks and UDFAs.  michael oher was very solid in pass protection this year even though the entire world laughed at that acquisition.  kurt coleman led the team in interceptions.  ted ginn jr had ten touchdown catches.  i think your brain just functions differently than mine.  we look at the same situation and just see two different things.

[Mr. Scot]

37 minutes ago, The NFL Shield At Midfield said:

You've chosen to ignore content by CPantherKing. Options

and for good reason

Good to have you back, dude.

Yes, two of our resident dimwits are still trying to push the anti-Gettleman agenda.  I don't think they realize just how stupid they look in the face of a Super Bowl appearance.

My guess: If we have another winning season this year they'll both be absolutely miserable. Meanwhile the rest of us will sit back and enjoy the ride.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

i'll give cpantherking credit for taking an actual position and having some points to make.  he at least has some ideas of his own even though i disagree with basically all of his positions.

but yeah i see the usual suspects are back up to their usual business.  the more things change.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

you also have to consider that many of the members of this much ballyhooed marty hurney core were on the team in 2011 and 2012

so why were both of those losing seasons?  i mean gettleman was just along for the ride as the panthers ran over the entire NFL this year, right?  if marty hurney was still here we still would have gone 15-1 and played in the super bowl, correct?  i mean it's the same group of players and it's been well established that gettleman's selections aren't contributing much.

just a quick note that if your answer to that question is "well all those guys needed time to develop" and you've been in here blasting gettleman's drafts and FA acquisitions then lmao

[CPantherKing]

4 hours ago, The NFL Shield At Midfield said:

you also have to consider that many of the members of this much ballyhooed marty hurney core were on the team in 2011 and 2012

so why were both of those losing seasons?  i mean gettleman was just along for the ride as the panthers ran over the entire NFL this year, right?  if marty hurney was still here we still would have gone 15-1 and played in the super bowl, correct?  i mean it's the same group of players and it's been well established that gettleman's selections aren't contributing much.

just a quick note that if your answer to that question is "well all those guys needed time to develop" and you've been in here blasting gettleman's drafts and FA acquisitions then lmao

Luke Kuechly did not take the defense over until mid season 2012 - it started off as John Beason and Kuechly was out of position at OLB. Thomas Davis was injured in 2011 and took a good portion during the start of the season to get back up to speed in 2012. Josh Norman was not drafted until 2012 and spent time in Rivera's dog house in 2012 and 2013 when he should have been starting the entire time. The Panthers had a major problem at LB in 2011 with the injuries to Beason and Davis in the first 2 games of the season. James Anderson, Dan Connor, and Jordan Senn were not going to get it done on defense. If the Panthers have those LBs instead of Kuechly and Davis in any of the past 3 seasons, the Panthers would be lucky to see the playoffs in 1 season never mind 3.

The Panthers defense gave up a ton of points in 2011. In 2012, they struggled to start the season and when everything was up to speed with the key players they finished the season off with a 6-3 record (5-1 in the final 6 games while keeping teams below 30 points unlike 11 of the previous games from 2011 to mid 2012).

Also, you had a rookie head coach who admittedly was learning on the job.

That was the reason. If the Panthers get the key pieces on defense healed up and in to place a couple weeks sooner, there would be no Dave Gettleman as GM.

The offense was good even with Cam learning at the QB position each week.

Keep in mind the Saints and Falcons were at the top of their game those years compared to their decline and rebuild over the past 3 seasons.