Ammunition for those wanting WR upgrades... Official Dropped Pass Yardage

[panthers90]

Yuo guys forgot about Stephen Hill

 

Joking aside, if we want to upgrade receiving, the way to go is to draft a stud TE like a Rudolph, Eifert, Ertz to put beside Olsen... Imagine KB, Funchess, Ginn, Olsen, Rookie TE on the field together

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, thefuzz said:

Disagree with you that the "drops are just drops".  Ginn isn't just a decoy, he has 10 TD's this past season for goodness sakes...he had as many TD's as Antonio Brown, on 100 less targets.

Back to the drops are drops thing...like I said yesterday...4 things can happen on those long bombs.  1 is bad, 1 is OK, and 2 are great.  The bad, an INT....the OK, a drop...the 2 great...either a reception or a PI/DH call.

Do we need to upgrade the WR corps?  Yes, but that goes without saying, there isn't a part of this team that couldn't be upgraded outside of QB and LB.  The trick is figuring out how to achieve that goal...something that most on this board don't bring up when spewing crap about our WR's.

I don't think that it's too much to ask for a receiver to do his primary job, so if that isn't done of course people are going to be critical. Moreover, everyone should know that the window for  a legitimate possibility of seizing the Lombardi trophy doesn't stay wide open forever, so they are looking to the GM to be on his game as well, as he is fully privy to all the dynamics of the team. Frankly, it's a fan's job to be a fan. I trust that Gettleman will figure it out as Huddlers continue to discuss any and all possible options (from personnel to salary ramifications).

I only mention Ginn as a decoy because you are trying to sell me on the fact that even when a receiver drops the ball, he is being effective. I don't believe that in any sense (except if it is a surety that he is going to be tackled behind the line of scrimmage) Drops are a part of the game, and to be expected. In that sense, I guess one can say they are OK, but too many drops (like leaving 450 yards on the field, before the YAC) are never OK. If a ball is catchable, the receiver should catch it. Like I alluded to before, incompletion percentage logically increases the longer a throw is (similar to a three-pointer in basketball) because of the nature of the game, but drops of catchable balls can literally be the difference between winning and losing.

[top dawg]

54 minutes ago, panthers90 said:

Yuo guys forgot about Stephen Hill

 

Joking aside, if we want to upgrade receiving, the way to go is to draft a stud TE like a Rudolph, Eifert, Ertz to put beside Olsen... Imagine KB, Funchess, Ginn, Olsen, Rookie TE on the field together

Sure, drafting a stud, or even good, TE would be awesome, but I don't believe that guys like Marcedes Lewis,  Jermaine Gresham, Zach Miller, and Dwayne Allen (for example) would be bad to pick up either.  They can certainly block better than Dickson, and they have better hands. It just depends on G-man's vision, but if he picked one of these guys up, I wouldn't be mad. 

[thefuzz]

18 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I don't think that it's too much to ask for a receiver to do his primary job, so if that isn't done of course people are going to be critical. Moreover, everyone should know that the window for  a legitimate possibility of seizing the Lombardi trophy doesn't stay wide open forever, so they are looking to the GM to be on his game as well, as he is fully privy to all the dynamics of the team. Frankly, it's a fan's job to be a fan. I trust that Gettleman will figure it out as Huddlers continue to discuss any and all possible options (from personnel to salary ramifications).

I only mention Ginn as a decoy because you are trying to sell me on the fact that even when a receiver drops the ball, he is being effective. I don't believe that in any sense (except if it is a surety that he is going to be tackled behind the line of scrimmage) Drops are a part of the game, and to be expected. In that sense, I guess one can say they are OK, but too many drops (like leaving 450 yards on the field, before the YAC) are never OK. If a ball is catchable, the receiver should catch it. Like I alluded to before, incompletion percentage logically increases the longer a throw is (similar to a three-pointer in basketball) because of the nature of the game, but drops of catchable balls can literally be the difference between winning and losing.

No one is saying that the WR corps is perfectly fine, at least that I have ever heard.  You may hear some people mention that it's not a dire need, and they can't somewhat be proven correct when all they have to point to is points per game in 2015.

Teddy Ginn's job here is to take the top off the defense...to add speed to the field to make this offense harder to defend.  He did that, and far outperformed his contract numbers this past season.  Ginn counted a little less against the cap as highly valued players like Jeremy Kerley and Cole Beasley.

Ginn is going to drop passes he should have caught, so is KB....just part of who they are, it's why Ginn is affordable, and Kelvin Benjamin damn near slid out of the 1st.  That isn't an excuse, it's just part of their game...do I get frustrated and scream to "catch the damn ball" yup, all the time, but that won't make them Beckham Jr. or Larry Fitz.

As to me selling you that drop are effective....nope, but long shots down the field are, regardless of outcome.

Now, since we are having this little round and round here, please tell me exactly how you want to fix the WR issue?

[top dawg]

9 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Now, since we are having this little round and round here, please tell me exactly how you want to fix the WR issue?

It is too early as far as I'm concerned to be talking about "fixing" the issue because a lot of things are still up in the air. Hell, when it's all said and done there may not be many better options available. I have bought in to using free agency to set up the draft in order to free yourself to draft the BPA. That being said, I would love to try and acquire a sure-handed receiver like Marvin Jones or Travis Benjamin. I would absolutely explore the possibility on both fronts.  Other than that, I would look to the draft where we should be able to get  nice day to or three prospect like Josh Doctson or Pharoh Cooper (to name a couple). Moreover, hopefully there is someone already on the roster that hopefully will be able to add legitimate competition like Norword (or Byrd form the PS). 

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

It is too early as far as I'm concerned to be talking about "fixing" the issue because a lot of things are still up in the air. Hell, when it's all said and done there may not be many better options available. I have bought in to using free agency to set up the draft in order to free yourself to draft the BPA. That being said, I would love to try and acquire a sure-handed receiver like Marvin Jones or Travis Benjamin. I would absolutely explore the possibility on both fronts.  Other than that, I would look to the draft where we should be able to get  nice day to or three prospect like Josh Doctson or Pharoh Cooper (to name a couple). Moreover, hopefully there is someone already on the roster that hopefully will be able to add legitimate competition like Norword (or Byrd form the PS). 

I get improving, and pushing our guys, but I'm not on board with tying up large chunks of our cap on someone who caught a TD once in the last 12 games.  He had bad QB play, but teams can ruin their cap overpaying for players like that.

Honestly, with Funch getting another year in the system, getting KB back, Ginn doing Ginn things, and Philly coming along nicely, I'm pretty happy with where we are now vs. where we sat exactly 2 years ago to date.

I would like to get a quick twitch, precise route runner with great hands, but those guys are awfully hard to find, especially if you are drafting at the back of the draft every year like I hope we are.

[Bartin]

2 hours ago, panthers90 said:

Yuo guys forgot about Stephen Hill

 

Joking aside, if we want to upgrade receiving, the way to go is to draft a stud TE like a Rudolph, Eifert, Ertz to put beside Olsen... Imagine KB, Funchess, Ginn, Olsen, Rookie TE on the field together

Unfortunately there is really no one even close to those guys in the draft this year. There were like 4 or 5 really good TEs that all went back to school and they would all be as good or better than the top TE prospects in this draft. Next year should be a great TE draft.

[top dawg]

44 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I get improving, and pushing our guys, but I'm not on board with tying up large chunks of our cap on someone who caught a TD once in the last 12 games.  He had bad QB play, but teams can ruin their cap overpaying for players like that.

Honestly, with Funch getting another year in the system, getting KB back, Ginn doing Ginn things, and Philly coming along nicely, I'm pretty happy with where we are now vs. where we sat exactly 2 years ago to date.

I would like to get a quick twitch, precise route runner with great hands, but those guys are awfully hard to find, especially if you are drafting at the back of the draft every year like I hope we are.

I don't believe that we would have to tie up "large chunks" of our cap on either Benjamin or Jones. Of course we can't get them for nothing. There is a price to be paid for a playmaker.  As for TDs, you must remember that Benjamin was essentially their number 1 WR this past season (which is kinda sad when you think about it). Here, he would have all kinds of help, and probably would seldom if ever be the man that opposing defenses would game-plan for.  This would free him up and hopefully allow him to catch more TDs. Moreover, with KB, Funchess and Olsen (and maybe even another big TE or WR receiving threat), we have more than one guy who can catch TDs down in the red zone. 

The position of WR can't continue to be pushed down closer to an afterthought than more of a priority. It has bitten us in the butt for too many years. It may have just cost us the Lombardi this past season, notwithstanding our ranking in total points. 

[Cpt slay a ho]

if we can upgrade from ginn, we need to,way too many plays left on the field last year

[thefuzz]

16 hours ago, top dawg said:

I don't believe that we would have to tie up "large chunks" of our cap on either Benjamin or Jones. Of course we can't get them for nothing. There is a price to be paid for a playmaker.  As for TDs, you must remember that Benjamin was essentially their number 1 WR this past season (which is kinda sad when you think about it). Here, he would have all kinds of help, and probably would seldom if ever be the man that opposing defenses would game-plan for.  This would free him up and hopefully allow him to catch more TDs. Moreover, with KB, Funchess and Olsen (and maybe even another big TE or WR receiving threat), we have more than one guy who can catch TDs down in the red zone. 

The position of WR can't continue to be pushed down closer to an afterthought than more of a priority. It has bitten us in the butt for too many years. It may have just cost us the Lombardi this past season, notwithstanding our ranking in total points. 

We will see soon how much Benjamin costs some team, my guess is he gets a pretty fat paycheck to go somewhere like Oakland.

I'm not sure how much more a team can make a position group a priority than drafting a WR in the first, followed up by moving up in the draft to draft another WR the following year in the 2nd?  In addition to bringing back Ginn, who helped propel this offense to marks this franchise has never seen.

As to the Lombardi, yes, we could have used another playmaker on the field, but I said that before we ever started the playoffs.  I figured we would start to miss KB once the refs swallowed their whistles a bit more, and the defenses started getting much harder to play against.  That said, we torched the Hawks and Cards and didn't need any of that help.

To be honest, our guys on offense just blew it, no two ways around it.

I still think that we are all selling our WR's a bit short though.  A healthy KB, a 2nd year Funch, Ginn still getting it done, and Philly with one more year of experience.  Can that corps be improved, yes, most definitely, but we aren't nearly as bad as some of the other teams out there.

[ncfan]

Have seen Sterling Shepard mocked to us in the 2nd serval mocks.  I know he was one of the first guys that was leaked we interviewed at the combine.  Gettleman mentioned another good reason this draft is so deep at DL is because some other good guys at other positions will drop.  This is kind of what happened with Ealy. He was the 2nd rated DE his draft but OT was said to be Super deep and stacked.

 

Here's a nice article from a pretty good scout at WR's.  After this I really want to trade up in the 2nd to get Shepard

http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-2016-nfl-draft-prospects-results.html

Here's a my favorite quote from the article

"Sterling Shepard simply broke the system with an 82.8 percent success rate against man coverage, and 91.1 percent against press. Question his size, or a future as “just” a slot receiver, but that is a rare ability to get open. Over a full Reception Perception sample, Shepard posted SRVC numbers akin to that of some of the best wide receivers in the NFL. His advanced and nuanced route-running combined with tangible athletic gifts should make him a lock for a top-three ranking at his position."

 

[Hammerin'Cameron34]

46 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Have seen Sterling Shepard mocked to us in the 2nd serval mocks.  I know he was one of the first guys that was leaked we interviewed at the combine.  Gettleman mentioned another good reason this draft is so deep at DL is because some other good guys at other positions will drop.  This is kind of what happened with Ealy. He was the 2nd rated DE his draft but OT was said to be Super deep and stacked.

 

Here's a nice article from a pretty good scout at WR's.  After this I really want to trade up in the 2nd to get Shepard

http://www.thebackyardbanter.com/reception-perception-2016-nfl-draft-prospects-results.html

Here's a my favorite quote from the article

"Sterling Shepard simply broke the system with an 82.8 percent success rate against man coverage, and 91.1 percent against press. Question his size, or a future as “just” a slot receiver, but that is a rare ability to get open. Over a full Reception Perception sample, Shepard posted SRVC numbers akin to that of some of the best wide receivers in the NFL. His advanced and nuanced route-running combined with tangible athletic gifts should make him a lock for a top-three ranking at his position."

 

This dude needs to be a Panther. He would completely change this offense.

[KB_fan]

Really liking what I read about Shepard.  (Haven't watched film as my internet connection has been very slow all week...)

He's been falling to our position in round 2 in many of the mock drafts I've done using different boards at fanspeak this week (using post combine Big Boards).  I'm surprised.  Hopefully he'll fly under the radar and we can grab him in round 2.

[heel31ok]

On Wednesday, March 02, 2016 at 3:27 PM, thefuzz said:

No one is saying that the WR corps is perfectly fine, at least that I have ever heard.  You may hear some people mention that it's not a dire need, and they can't somewhat be proven correct when all they have to point to is points per game in 2015.

Teddy Ginn's job here is to take the top off the defense...to add speed to the field to make this offense harder to defend.  He did that, and far outperformed his contract numbers this past season.  Ginn counted a little less against the cap as highly valued players like Jeremy Kerley and Cole Beasley.

Ginn is going to drop passes he should have caught, so is KB....just part of who they are, it's why Ginn is affordable, and Kelvin Benjamin damn near slid out of the 1st.  That isn't an excuse, it's just part of their game...do I get frustrated and scream to "catch the damn ball" yup, all the time, but that won't make them Beckham Jr. or Larry Fitz.

As to me selling you that drop are effective....nope, but long shots down the field are, regardless of outcome.

Now, since we are having this little round and round here, please tell me exactly how you want to fix the WR issue?

Always looking to upgrade...