Ammunition for those wanting WR upgrades... Official Dropped Pass Yardage

[ncfan]

3 hours ago, WOW!! said:

Sterlin Sheppard in the 3rd or 4th and I'll be satisfied. .

I wouldn't be mad with him in the 2nd as late as we pick.  Kid is a solid route runner.

[TheSpecialJuan]

WoW

[beastson]

5 hours ago, thefuzz said:

You mean like drafting a WR in the 1st and 2nd rounds within 2 years?

Its a start, but 2 receivers doesn't make up a whole WR core

[JawnyBlaze]

10 hours ago, WOW!! said:

Sterlin Sheppard in the 3rd or 4th and I'll be satisfied. .

 

9 hours ago, Bartin said:

Everyone would. 2nd round is his floor. He's a clean prospect that showed at the combine in a weak WR draft.

 

5 hours ago, ncfan said:

I wouldn't be mad with him in the 2nd as late as we pick.  Kid is a solid route runner.

I noticed him because of a thread in the draft forum.  I DO WANT THIS KID.  If the WR group is getting thin by the top of the 2nd, I hope we trade up for him like we did Funchess.  I very much either want Shepherd or TE Henry in the 2nd, and if we need to trade up to make it happen so be it.  DE/CB preferably in the 1st, one of these two pass catchers in the 2nd.  Yes please.

[SCMunnerlyn1]

15 hours ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Oh I know, but that's like half of the yardage on dropped balls right there alone, and none of those were rocket balls by any means. 

I also said particularly to the running backs.

[GoobyPls]

Unless its a kick returner hybrid I don't want us to draft a receiver, we are a Superbowl contending team and not many rookie receivers are ready to contribute right away. 

 

Bring in Travis Benjamin or Mike Wallace, automatic upgrades over anybody not named Kelvin. Or even Andre Johnson who I think Cam can rejuvenate  

[IGSaint]

19 hours ago, SCMunnerlyn1 said:

One thing that can help is just throwing a more catchable ball at times. Some times those rockets are unnecessary particularly to the running backs whom dropped several as I recall. 

It's not the rockets that our wr's drop ironically it's the breadbasket type of throws that they drop especially Ginn, as the poster below you pointed out. 

[KB_fan]

9 hours ago, csx said:

and then there is this:

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-tom-brady-receivers-drops-010516

 

From that article - Patriots tied for "most drops" last season:

 

Quote

Pro Football Focus ‎@PFF

Derek Carr and Tom Brady ended season tied for most drops suffered in NFL with 44. Amari Cooper alone had 18

But, per PFF, Panthers had most YARDS lost because of drops.

I checked the pass attempts per game rankings.  Brady ranked 4th in 2015 - 40.5 pass attempts.    Cam ranked 28th at 31.2.  Over the course of a season, that's nearly 160 more passes thrown by Brady, so higher numbers of drops for the Pats receivers isn't all that surprising.

It does suggest, as someone pointed out above, that most of the Panthers' dropped passes this season were on long balls.  That's one reason why we remember so many of them.  Quite a few would have been sure TDs.

[DaveThePanther2008]

21 hours ago, KB_fan said:

I'm certainly no expert on WR catch mechanics.  KB looked amazing and wasn't dropping much of anything during the preseason if I recall correctly.  Funchess' drops declined sharply through the season as well, so I'm not too concerned about either of these guys having major long-term drop issues.  They're both so young still, think there's still improvement ahead.  Ginn though, we probably still have to expect drops   He is what he is.  We have to take the bad (drops) with the good (game changing speed)...

There isn't any particular WR in the draft or FA who really interests me at the moment.  But maybe adding a 2nd great pass-catching TE like Hunter Henry could be an option if he's still there in round 2?  I'm doubtful he'd fall that far, but if he did....

I believe in the beginning of the season we lost the majority of these yards. 

I remember the frustration early more than latter.

[top dawg]

I am no scheme expert, but I have watched plenty of football. I have watched Coryell-coached teams live. I can tell you that Charlie Joyner, John Jefferson and Wes Chandler did not leave plays all over the field. 

San Diego's defense was their liability, not their receivers. Their guys had great hands. Moreover, Kellen Winslow is still arguably the greatest TE that has ever played the game, and Chuck Muncie was great making clutch passes as well.

Of course when your offense is more vertical, there is a lower completion percentage, but it's not because receivers are simply dropping balls.That is preposterous.

In order for this offense to be most effective, the receivers are going to have to run good routes and get open on a more consistent basis, and then they have to make the catch. It's that simple.

[thefuzz]

4 hours ago, top dawg said:

I am no scheme expert, but I have watched plenty of football. I have watched Coryell-coached teams live. I can tell you that Charlie Joyner, John Jefferson and Wes Chandler did not leave plays all over the field. 

San Diego's defense was their liability, not their receivers. Their guys had great hands. Moreover, Kellen Winslow is still arguably the greatest TE that has ever played the game, and Chuck Muncie was great making clutch passes as well.

Of course when your offense is more vertical, there is a lower completion percentage, but it's not because receivers are simply dropping balls.That is preposterous.

In order for this offense to be most effective, the receivers are going to have to run good routes and get open on a more consistent basis, and then they have to make the catch. It's that simple.

Most of the drops you are referencing...and remembering, were thrown to a 3/4 WR that had to step up and be a no. 1.

The passes to Ginn were still effective, as I stated earlier in the thread.  If Ginn had great hands, he would still be in Miami.

Scheme has a lot to do with drops and incomplete passes.  Cam, while in this scheme, isn't going to look like Brady and Brees from years past, just isn't going to happen.

[top dawg]

52 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Most of the drops you are referencing...and remembering, were thrown to a 3/4 WR that had to step up and be a no. 1.

The passes to Ginn were still effective, as I stated earlier in the thread.  If Ginn had great hands, he would still be in Miami.

Scheme has a lot to do with drops and incomplete passes.  Cam, while in this scheme, isn't going to look like Brady and Brees from years past, just isn't going to happen.

I agree that scheme can have a lot to do with incomplete passes, but personnel is responsible for dropped passes and the inability to get open in single coverage.

As for Cam, he never will be as accurate as Dan Fouts (among others), but he can still be just as effective with his total package. I absolutely love Cam, but I am not an apologist for overthrown ballistic missiles, bad mechanics, and bad decisions, but I accept a little bad with a large amount of good. He has greatly improved, and I have no doubt that with better weapons he will get us over that hump in crunch time.

As for weapons, Ginn is good and Ginn is bad. He will always be the receiver who could have been great, but for his inconsistent hands. His catches are very effective. His drops are...just drops. Sure, being a decoy is part of the game, but in any scheme, especially a vertical Air Coryell type offense, those outside receivers need to be consistent, legitimate threats, or the whole system breaks down and is not nearly as effective as it could be. You can't catch them all, but Ginn has left far too much meat on the bone during his career. In the Super Bowl, they all did.

In a way, your response is the epitome as to why upgrading the receiving corps should be high on the priority list.

Let us all have no illusions (or delusions)!

[thefuzz]

25 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I agree that scheme can have a lot to do with incomplete passes, but personnel is responsible for dropped passes and the inability to get open in single coverage.

As for Cam, he never will be as accurate as Dan Fouts (among others), but he can still be just as effective with his total package. I absolutely love Cam, but I am not an apologist for overthrown ballistic missiles, bad mechanics, and bad decisions, but I accept a little bad with a large amount of good. He has greatly improved, and I have no doubt that with better weapons he will get us over that hump in crunch time.

As for weapons, Ginn is good and Ginn is bad. He will always be the receiver who could have been great, but for his inconsistent hands. His catches are very effective. His drops are...just drops. Sure, being a decoy is part of the game, but in any scheme, especially a vertical Air Coryell type offense, those outside receivers need to be consistent, legitimate threats, or the whole system breaks down and is not nearly as effective as it could be. You can't catch them all, but Ginn has left far too much meat on the bone during his career. In the Super Bowl, they all did.

In a way, your response is the epitome as to why upgrading the receiving corps should be high on the priority list.

Let us all have no illusions (or delusions)!

Disagree with you that the "drops are just drops".  Ginn isn't just a decoy, he has 10 TD's this past season for goodness sakes...he had as many TD's as Antonio Brown, on 100 less targets.

Back to the drops are drops thing...like I said yesterday...4 things can happen on those long bombs.  1 is bad, 1 is OK, and 2 are great.  The bad, an INT....the OK, a drop...the 2 great...either a reception or a PI/DH call.

Do we need to upgrade the WR corps?  Yes, but that goes without saying, there isn't a part of this team that couldn't be upgraded outside of QB and LB.  The trick is figuring out how to achieve that goal...something that most on this board don't bring up when spewing crap about our WR's.

[MountainHeel66]

I'm still amazed by the number of you that think ANY of out WR outside of KB deserve to be considered anything above a 3/4 at best. Funch may get there in a couple of years but he is NOT now. I don't care how much we like them as people there are better talents all over the NFL and if that means Ted Ginn is a #4 that only gets a few passes a game, then so be it. He was brought in as a specialty player to begin with NOT a primary WR. We used what we had to this year and are fortunate we had Cam as our QB, that doesn't equate to us having a really talented WR Corp though.