REPORT: Charles Johnson, take pay cut or be cut

[mashburnfalcon]

9 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Hageman is a Defensive Tackle and a total head-case.

Greg Hardy might be more mature and well-balanced than Rashede Hageman.

What the heck are you talking about? Smoked pot. Same as your quarterback. 

 

Who cares. I don't smoke, but who cares. 

[mashburnfalcon]

6 hours ago, Hammerin'Cameron34 said:

Oh wow

Yeah I don't know too much about Hageman but the last I did hear of him he was an up and comer and possible game wrecker ... but so isn't Justin Blackmon.

Vontaze Burfict would be pretty close to Luke Kuechly if Burfict weren't a headcase, ill say that. I liked Burfict a ton coming out, he is a tackling machine, but an idiot, a damn idiot

Me comparing Kuechly to Burfict is idiotic 

 

I'm curious to find out what hageman did. Only thing I know of he tried buying pot on Twitter. Or something like that..... To me I just laugh. And I don't smoke but I don't care if others do. 

But that'sall I know.

Maybe this person is trying to say he is a head case becausehis father died. His mother is in prison for drugs. And him and his brother was found at the age of three in a crack house locked in a closet....... Yeah talk about a f'ed up situation . But it's not one where I would ever think of making fun of someone for....... But maybe this member here is trying to make fun of hageman for the horrible sad situation. 

[t96]

On 2/21/2016 at 11:02 AM, MHS831 said:

It is not just about saving the $11m, it is also about getting something for the $4m that would convert to dead money should he be cut.  So, if you look at it as if we stand to lose $4m by cutting him, what is CJ likely to get on the open market?  With 1 sack or so in 2015 and a history of injuries of late, there is little to market.  At 30, he appears to have something left in the tank.  How much would a team pay for him?  Remember, the fact that the Panthers asked him to take a cut and didn't show interest in re-signing him means that his value is well below his price.  I would say he would find it difficult to land a deal for more than $7million per season.  So Carolina would actually be getting him for $3m this year, if that is correct.  Who else could we get for $3m?

HOWEVER, Defensive Ends can't develop on the bench.  So playing CJ and hoping to squeeze another year out of him at 30 (He is an old player for 30--10 seasons) may be counterproductive in the long run. 

I see him becoming a Falcon--going home to Atlanta and getting pumped up vs. the Panthers twice a year.  I see this offer as a "let's see if they will bite" offer before cutting him. 

All that to say: I think we lose the $4m, give Hurney the dumbass salute, and move on. 

How is that correct? He has a $15M cap hit...

And that $4M dead money is a restructure bonus, which if I'm not mistaken was DG's move not Hurney's, though Hurney was indeed the reason DG had to make moves like that.

 

We can easily get a better player in FA for less than the $11M we save. The dead money is what it is, we can't get anything for it.

[tiger7_88]

21 minutes ago, mashburnfalcon said:

What the heck are you talking about? Smoked pot. Same as your quarterback. 

Lawd.

[mashburnfalcon]

14 minutes ago, mashburnfalcon said:

I'm curious to find out what hageman did. Only thing I know of he tried buying pot on Twitter. Or something like that..... To me I just laugh. And I don't smoke but I don't care if others do. 

But that'sall I know.

Maybe this person is trying to say he is a head case becausehis father died. His mother is in prison for drugs. And him and his brother was found at the age of three in a crack house locked in a closet....... Yeah talk about a f'ed up situation . But it's not one where I would ever think of making fun of someone for....... But maybe this member here is trying to make fun of hageman for the horrible sad situation. 

 

2 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Lawd.

My statement is above. Seriously, care to explain yourself? 

[MHS831]

10 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

How is that correct? He has a $15M cap hit...

And that $4M dead money is a restructure bonus, which if I'm not mistaken was DG's move not Hurney's, though Hurney was indeed the reason DG had to make moves like that.

 

We can easily get a better player in FA for less than the $11M we save. The dead money is what it is, we can't get anything for it.

]

Just illustrating how we do not "get" $11m to cut him; we give CJ $4m to cut him.  The $15m cap hit is mostly unguaranteed--it does not exist, in other words, unless we stay the course, and we all know that we aren't.   There is no way we were going to give him his contract amount this year, so you have to look at the costs without it. 

So if we rework his deal, we can apply the $4m to salary and it does not become dead money.  That is how we need to look at free agency.  CJ is worth about $7m (or less) if you consider what the market is likely to pay.  So--a deal to keep him for $7m actually costs us $3m more. 

If we sign a free agent, then we must give CJ $4m in addition to the full salary of the free agent. 

 

[t96]

17 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

]

Just illustrating how we do not "get" $11m to cut him; we give CJ $4m to cut him.  The $15m cap hit is mostly unguaranteed--it does not exist, in other words, unless we stay the course, and we all know that we aren't.   There is no way we were going to give him his contract amount this year, so you have to look at the costs without it. 

So if we rework his deal, we can apply the $4m to salary and it does not become dead money.  That is how we need to look at free agency.  CJ is worth about $7m (or less) if you consider what the market is likely to pay.  So--a deal to keep him for $7m actually costs us $3m more. 

If we sign a free agent, then we must give CJ $4m in addition to the full salary of the free agent. 

 

We've already given him that $4M, whether he's cut or not. We do get $11M back in cap space if we cut him.

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

We've already given him that $4M, whether he's cut or not. We do get $11M back in cap space if we cut him.

You add it to his contract extension if we do not cut him--thus saving that amount when compared to cutting him and signing a new free agent.  We have not already given him the $$--he is guaranteed the money as part of his 2016 contract.  

GMs do not care about cap space right now if the number you are seeing on fan websites features unguaranteed contracts for players they have no intention of paying.  You can look at it that way if you want, they are looking at guaranteed money right now. CJ and $4m are either cut or CJ and $4m will be worked into his new deal. The unguaranteed money is based on a mutual agreement, and we do not have that.  So, you can look at it like we are getting money back--the $11m in unguaranteed and we know will not be paid--so it does not exist, except on charts and websites for fans to keep up with cap room. .  Gettlemen will not think, "I am getting $11m to cut CJ" He will think, "cutting CJ creates $4m in dead money"---that is factored into his decision to re-sign CJ.

[t96]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

You add it to his contract extension if we do not cut him--thus saving that amount when compared to cutting him and signing a new free agent.  We have not already given him the $$--he is guaranteed the money as part of his 2016 contract.  

GMs do not care about cap space right now if the number you are seeing on fan websites features unguaranteed contracts for players they have no intention of paying.  You can look at it that way if you want, they are looking at guaranteed money right now. CJ and $4m are either cut or CJ and $4m will be worked into his new deal. The unguaranteed money is based on a mutual agreement, and we do not have that.  So, you can look at it like we are getting money back--the $11m in unguaranteed and we know will not be paid--so it does not exist, except on charts and websites for fans to keep up with cap room. .  Gettlemen will not think, "I am getting $11m to cut CJ" He will think, "cutting CJ creates $4m in dead money"---that is factored into his decision to re-sign CJ.

That $4M is money from '13/'14 that was converted into a bonus and pushed to now to give us cap relief in those years. We would not be saving that money by extending him (and extending him is not in play here, only a straight up pay cut or release). This is simpler than how you're looking at it. DG is going to look at Cj and see if we keep him, it's a $15M cap hit. If we release him, it's $4M cap hit but without him on the team. If he takes a straight pay cut (no idea how much it would be for DG to decide he's worth keeping) it could turn his cap hit into $4M plus vet. min. at the lowest or the lowest CJ would agree to. CJ's salary is $11M, that $4M was salary from another season that was just moved to now. I highly doubt CJ is going to take even 50% pay cut, but if he does that's $5.5M plus the $4M that's there anyways. CJ isn't even worth that $5.5M and if that's the lowest CJ would go he's probably gone. DG will be looking at the $11M only and decide whether or not CJ is worth that much and if not then how much less is he worth to keep around? It's likely inevitable that he's cut because you rarely see large pay cuts which is what would be required for him to actually be worth keeping.

[MHS831]

9 hours ago, thomas96 said:

That $4M is money from '13/'14 that was converted into a bonus and pushed to now to give us cap relief in those years. We would not be saving that money by extending him (and extending him is not in play here, only a straight up pay cut or release). This is simpler than how you're looking at it. DG is going to look at Cj and see if we keep him, it's a $15M cap hit. If we release him, it's $4M cap hit but without him on the team. If he takes a straight pay cut (no idea how much it would be for DG to decide he's worth keeping) it could turn his cap hit into $4M plus vet. min. at the lowest or the lowest CJ would agree to. CJ's salary is $11M, that $4M was salary from another season that was just moved to now. I highly doubt CJ is going to take even 50% pay cut, but if he does that's $5.5M plus the $4M that's there anyways. CJ isn't even worth that $5.5M and if that's the lowest CJ would go he's probably gone. DG will be looking at the $11M only and decide whether or not CJ is worth that much and if not then how much less is he worth to keep around? It's likely inevitable that he's cut because you rarely see large pay cuts which is what would be required for him to actually be worth keeping.

I am not a capologist, but that makes sense.Nice explanation,  I was going from a site (http://overthecap.com/player/charles-johnson/1150) that had the $4m the guaranteed portion of his 2016 salary (the way it reads). I now see where Spotrac has it as restructured bonus.   I would say this about CJ, however---He has been banged up of late, and that could be why he is sucking.  The point is, we have to make a decision based on the now.  His is still 29 but he has been doing this for 10 years---a long time to be taking on guards, fullbacks,  OTs, etc.  He did step up in the playoffs.  However, I was disappointed to see how many mistakes he was making in the run game--not staying home vs. the cutbacks etc.  I am ready to move on, bring in some young blood, etc. Here is the big question:  When do you cut him?  I think Gettlemen waits until the new league year and it is the first thing he does, but if you can hold him through free agency and the draft, then cut him at a minimal cost, maybe that is the smart thing--of course, you lose your leverage if you try to extend him then. 

II think I would cut him immediately.  Thanks for the correction.  Helps me understand the situation more clearly.

[tiger7_88]

14 hours ago, mashburnfalcon said:

 

My statement is above. Seriously, care to explain yourself? 

So you think, considering your clear explanation of his parents and how he was raised, that he's a perfectly well-adjusted human being?

You've seen his behavior on the sideline and you STILL think he's well-adjusted and mature?  Do his coaches agree with you?

(P.S. Please try not to lie about Cam Newton in your response.)

[t96]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I am not a capologist, but that makes sense.Nice explanation,  I was going from a site (http://overthecap.com/player/charles-johnson/1150) that had the $4m the guaranteed portion of his 2016 salary (the way it reads). I now see where Spotrac has it as restructured bonus.   I would say this about CJ, however---He has been banged up of late, and that could be why he is sucking.  The point is, we have to make a decision based on the now.  His is still 29 but he has been doing this for 10 years---a long time to be taking on guards, fullbacks,  OTs, etc.  He did step up in the playoffs.  However, I was disappointed to see how many mistakes he was making in the run game--not staying home vs. the cutbacks etc.  I am ready to move on, bring in some young blood, etc. Here is the big question:  When do you cut him?  I think Gettlemen waits until the new league year and it is the first thing he does, but if you can hold him through free agency and the draft, then cut him at a minimal cost, maybe that is the smart thing--of course, you lose your leverage if you try to extend him then. 

II think I would cut him immediately.  Thanks for the correction.  Helps me understand the situation more clearly.

I personally just want to see him cut immediately as well. He was just flat out terrible down the stretch this year and Ealy should've been starting over him. I'd much rather say bye to CJ and sign a vet in FA to replace him while also drafting young talent. I like William Hayes from the Rams or depending on the price and medical eval, JPP would be an amazing addition. Of course I've made it clear how much I want Hardy back but that ain't happening. I do think if we cut CJ we'll need to sign a veteran though.

[The Lobo]

16 hours ago, mashburnfalcon said:

What the heck are you talking about? Smoked pot. Same as your quarterback. 

 

Who cares. I don't smoke, but who cares. 

If you are talking about that video from this weekend...it was a cigar wow

[mashburnfalcon]

1 hour ago, tiger7_88 said:

So you think, considering your clear explanation of his parents and how he was raised, that he's a perfectly well-adjusted human being?

You've seen his behavior on the sideline and you STILL think he's well-adjusted and mature?  Do his coaches agree with you?

(P.S. Please try not to lie about Cam Newton in your response.)

What are you talking about with how he acted on the sideline??? You compared him to a nutcase Greg hardy. 

 

If you are talking about him being emotional on the sideline is a problem. Are you sure you are OK with cam Newton? Last I checked he was really emotional a lot worse then what hageman was. 

 

 

But you have some issues if you think because of something that happened to you horrible at childhood means you are a head case. Hageman went on to be a player and make a lot of money. He stayed at what he is good at. And you do know what he has a degree in right? http://www.cehd.umn.edu/SSW/Programs/youth_studies/default.asp

Guys like cam and hageman might be emotional. Therefore they are easy targets. But they do great things. Helping youth to be a better person is awesome. 

I don't care if cam or hageman cry. Everyone handles things different. As long as they are not hurting anyone or themselves, then I'm fine. And I think it's amazing when they help the youth, charities, etc etc. 

 

Hageman is nothing like hardy. Hageman came from a very horrible situation to be a great person. And he is helping others learn how to overcome horrible things. 

 

So what are you trying to say again?