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How Would You Feel if The Panthers Drafted Derrick Henry in the 1st?

Hoenheim

By Hoenheim,
in Carolina Panthers

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The Huddler Veteran

The Huddler

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, thomas96 said:

Big men allow you to compete...

But pretty sure he's referring to the trenches when saying that. I don't recall him bringing up that phrase when we drafted KB, only when talking about guys like Star, KK, Turner, etc. (linemen).

"You cant teach 6'5 240"

 

He likes em big. Even at skill positions

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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Posted

I want BPA regardless of positions outside of DT, QB, and LB.

If a RB is that, I will be OK with it, even though drafting them in the 1st isn't an ideal situation for me.

We are in a totally different position than we were back when we drafted 2 RB's in the 1st over 3 years.  We now have a much more balanced team with some vet leaders, and young guns as well.

If Henry is the best player at 30, then pull the trigger.

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d-dave Veteran

d-dave

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Posted

OK, so I spent a good 15 minutes watching some highlights (which are going to be super biased of course!).

He's big, athletic and deceptively fast.  That jumps out.  There are a few issues when you look at how RBs translate to the NFL which affects how you view the pick.  Henry was one of the best athletes on the field, and he just out ran most guys.  A lot of those big plays were when the defense over pursued, or was basically running the wrong way.  Great college RBs typically have these kinds of highlights.  Henry has them in spades.  On most of those runs, he ran completely clean.

The problem with his height and size is going to be leverage.  While the NFL does run more spread concepts, and more multiple DB sets, when he runs into a half way decent LB of a similar size, what's going to happen?  Sure, he can break the arm tackles, but can he lay the wood on opponents?  Can he lay the wood on a hard hitting NFL safety or LB and truck them for yards?  He runs awful high and get's stood up when dudes hit him low.  

Now I'm not a scout, or even a bad pretend scout nor do I follow college football as closely as y'all do (I enjoy when I can watch it). His value is going to be in the translation of his skills into a typical NFL offense.  How well could he play in a more spread attack?  Our Read/Option?  Can his physical talents counter his high running?  Leverage is more important in the NFL than it is in college.  I just didn't see him running with enough leverage in those videos.

Does anyone else see that kind of stuff?

EDIT: checked out some of his runs versus other teams via the youtubes...

So he will make a defense pay for a bad tackle or an open lane.  But when guys stop him, he goes down quickly.  Also, shorter guys who get into his chest kill his momentum.  I mean, this isn't a unique problem, just my dumb guy observation.  He's a guy where you'll have to take to not so great short yardage game with the sledge hammer style which will break a D in the 2nd half.

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, thomas96 said:

Big men allow you to compete...

But pretty sure he's referring to the trenches when saying that. I don't recall him bringing up that phrase when we drafted KB, only when talking about guys like Star, KK, Turner, etc. (linemen).

You're technically correct, of course, but all things being equal, Gettleman is going to pick the man with the size. He point blank said that "size" was the determining factor between Kelvin Benjamin and Marquise Lee. And of course there he mentioned size when referencing Funchess also.

"You can't coach 6'5", 240." (Dave on Benjamin)

"You can't coach that size." (Dave on Funchess)

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that when Gettleman looks at the tape of Ezekiel Eliott or Alex Collins for example, Henry's size will win out against both of them. 

Size absolutely matters in the trenches to not only Gettleman, but many football execs, but I think that Gettleman puts a premium on size at skilled positions also. 

 

 

On an off note, I think that all this crp about not drafting Henry because he's been used up, or that he is Trent Richardson 2.0 is crazy talk.

 

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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37 minutes ago, d-dave said:

OK, so I spent a good 15 minutes watching some highlights (which are going to be super biased of course!).

He's big, athletic and deceptively fast.  That jumps out.  There are a few issues when you look at how RBs translate to the NFL which affects how you view the pick.  Henry was one of the best athletes on the field, and he just out ran most guys.  A lot of those big plays were when the defense over pursued, or was basically running the wrong way.  Great college RBs typically have these kinds of highlights.  Henry has them in spades.  On most of those runs, he ran completely clean.

The problem with his height and size is going to be leverage.  While the NFL does run more spread concepts, and more multiple DB sets, when he runs into a half way decent LB of a similar size, what's going to happen?  Sure, he can break the arm tackles, but can he lay the wood on opponents?  Can he lay the wood on a hard hitting NFL safety or LB and truck them for yards?  He runs awful high and get's stood up when dudes hit him low.  

Now I'm not a scout, or even a bad pretend scout nor do I follow college football as closely as y'all do (I enjoy when I can watch it). His value is going to be in the translation of his skills into a typical NFL offense.  How well could he play in a more spread attack?  Our Read/Option?  Can his physical talents counter his high running?  Leverage is more important in the NFL than it is in college.  I just didn't see him running with enough leverage in those videos.

Does anyone else see that kind of stuff?

EDIT: checked out some of his runs versus other teams via the youtubes...

So he will make a defense pay for a bad tackle or an open lane.  But when guys stop him, he goes down quickly.  Also, shorter guys who get into his chest kill his momentum.  I mean, this isn't a unique problem, just my dumb guy observation.  He's a guy where you'll have to take to not so great short yardage game with the sledge hammer style which will break a D in the 2nd half.

I'm always pretty hesitant on the larger RB's...not just height, but weight as well.

I would prefer a Stewart/Tomlinson size back, not just for the high/low running part, but also just the ability to stay healthy, and move laterally.

Big backs are good for short yardage, but not so great at bouncing outside, making guys miss, nor pass pro.  If you can't pick up a blitzer, or catch passes, you normally can't play on 3rd down...and I don't want a RB in the 1st that can't play on 3rd down.

Again, I'm not judging Henry here, and if DG thinks that he can do it, then pull the trigger.....I just don't watch enough college ball to know about this cat.

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I'm always pretty hesitant on the larger RB's...not just height, but weight as well.

I would prefer a Stewart/Tomlinson size back, not just for the high/low running part, but also just the ability to stay healthy, and move laterally.

Big backs are good for short yardage, but not so great at bouncing outside, making guys miss, nor pass pro.  If you can't pick up a blitzer, or catch passes, you normally can't play on 3rd down...and I don't want a RB in the 1st that can't play on 3rd down.

Again, I'm not judging Henry here, and if DG thinks that he can do it, then pull the trigger.....I just don't watch enough college ball to know about this cat.

From what I have gathered thus far, Henry is exceptional in pass protection...just saying. He has a limited sample catching the ball (as all Bama backs do), but he has shown an ability to catch as well.

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thefuzz Mentor

thefuzz

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Just now, top dawg said:

From what I have gathered thus far, Henry is exceptional in pass protection...just saying. He has a limited sample catching the ball (as all Bama backs do), but he has shown an ability to catch as well.

Combine will be big for him to see if he can indeed catch.  

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stan786 Mentor

stan786

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Henry definitely has size and straight line speed but I think his upright running style and his lack of lateral agility will severely hamper his ability to force missed tackles in the NFL.   If he gets behind a line with a fullback and a good offensive line I think he could be serviceable to good and probably get 1000 yards in a season once or twice, I just don't see him fitting in very well in the read option scheme we have going on.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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13 hours ago, yasuhara2241 said:

I don't know. He definitely doesn't break tackles like Stew but I haven't seen the burst that D Will had when he was young. I see the vision of Stew just not as physical. 

In fairness, CAP didn't get tons of opportunity to open it up and display his burst.  I still think as an overall RB he is more Williams than Stewart. 

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