NFL Turning Point: The Clete Blakeman Effect

[Semaj]

2 hours ago, Zaximus said:

Nope.   Denver didn't have two fumble strips that shouldn't have happened.  They didn't have a missed field goal because of offsides.   Please, stop trying to stand on your soapbox when the evidence is there.  I've asked Denver fans for a list, and I bet there isn't one.  I looked all over the web, and all I see is tons of articles about the Panthers getting bad calls and ZERO about Denver not getting any.    I'd love to see a Denver fan go across the game and find any game breaking calls like we did.   There isn't any.  No, holding calls don't count when everyone is holding.  

I can't stand when fans go 'stand on the soapbox' and play devils advocate.  It is annoying as hell.  I have a family member who does it on every issue.  It drives me insane.  If your a Panthers fan its OK to say that the reffing was one sided and the critical calls/no calls, every one of them went Denver's way, thus they won.  It was the difference.  No if's and's or but's.  It was the difference.  All things equal we win this game because the Denver offense was hideously worse than ours.

[Semaj]

2 hours ago, letsgobroncos said:

Has it occurred to you guys that the ONLY people saying the refs had any impact are Panther fans. Nobody from the national media has even mentioned it as a topic of discussion.

Losing respect.

Please disrespect us and go away.  Pay back will come next year, and then you will respect the Carolina Panthers once again.  It's gonna be fun :)  You know what they say about Pay Back.

[cgarsmoker]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

Scooping and batting a ball downfield to aid a recovery is a penalty.  Now could the ref see it? Probably not....it happened though.  Can't say it didn't happen.  Von scooped and flung it toward the Panther end zone....hence the ball flying at the ref.

So did contact to the head on the first one.    Cam won't get that call.  Peyton might. 

Let's not forget, all turnovers are viewed via replay so even if Clete missed it.....it should have never been overlooked on the replay review.  The NFL in New York had a chance to get the call correct but chose to let it go.

It makes me sick to my stomach to know the NFL doesn't enforce the rules in a game of this magnitude.   

[CPantherKing]

4 hours ago, BigKing said:

That long post about each "bad call" adds a lot of plays that were just plays and not actually worthy of a call.  It also ignores actual penalties not called against the Panthers but states "there were no bad or missed calls against Denver" which is false as holding could have been called multiple times on the Carolina tackles.  There is legit beef to be had here, but a lot of those "incidents" are a stretch.  You can call a penalty on every play pretty much if you follow the exact letter of the law/rule book.

Judgement calls were factored out as this makes every play disputable. Holding, taunting, and contact down field are not important. The only talking point for officiating regarding judgement calls is that they were consistent in their use of those calls for both teams.

This is about definitive penalties which had a direct impact on the play that were missed or bad decisions by the officials.

3 hours ago, BigKing said:

I'm sure a Denver fan could put a list together as well of all the calls that they think went against them, as in the multiple times our tackles were guilty of holding.

I looked at it play by play for Denver and I will again. Remember judgement calls like holding are factored out for obvious reasons.

Denver had ONE bad call against them and no missed calls that directly impacted the play. It was the holding penalty on Roby late in the game. While Roby did hold Brown, this was not near the play and did not make an impact on the play as Cam Newton never demonstrated an intent to go to that side of the field. If Cam did look to that side of the field, then the penalty would be correct. While this was a bad call that went against the Broncos, it was the only call the officials decided to pick the flag up. So, Clete Blakeman, who refused to correct any bad calls against the Panthers and directed the responsibility of the bad call to the primary official to make the call with the Panthers coaches protests, did the correct thing by conferencing with the officials and overruling them when it came to the Broncos ONE bad call following the Broncos coaches protest.

3 hours ago, letsgobroncos said:

Got it. Blown calls that went the Panthers way don't count. Blown calls that went the Broncos way are inexcusable.

This was about ALL blown calls excluding judgement calls like holding and taunting. The issue is there was only one that went against the Broncos, and it is the only one that was corrected with an overrule by Clete Blakeman.

I will go over the game again and focus solely on the Broncos to see if I missed any. If you see any, please post the time in the game the play occurred. Thank you.

[tiger7_88]

Probably already been mentioned, but...

After the Super Bowl, the Denver Broncos are 6-0 in games where Blakeman has been the head official.

The Panthers are 2-3.

Interesting statistical anomaly.  Weren't we one of the least penalized teams in the league this year?

[pstall]

Games over.  No amount of foot stomping and screaming will change it.

[GRWatcher]

4 hours ago, Lilsmitty09 said:

The day the NFL has info released about how the fix was in will be one of the happiest days of my life.

 

Guarantee we blow Denver out next year and calls are clean. Wanna know why? Peyton won't be there so the league won't give a single poo about them.

Sorry but the Denver game will be in Denver. I do not expect any better treatment by the officiating crew or any less dirty play by the Broncos D than in the SB. Whether or not Manning plays. Do I expect us to win anyway? Hell yeah. I just don't expect the conditions to be any different.

[GRWatcher]

4 hours ago, Lilsmitty09 said:

The day the NFL has info released about how the fix was in will be one of the happiest days of my life.

 

Guarantee we blow Denver out next year and calls are clean. Wanna know why? Peyton won't be there so the league won't give a single poo about them.

Sorry but the Denver game will be in Denver. I do not expect any better treatment by the officiating crew or any less dirty play by the Broncos D than in the SB. Whether or not Manning plays. Do I expect us to win anyway? Hell yeah. I just don't expect the conditions to be any different.

[CarolinaSamurai]

5 hours ago, Frankie said:

No I wouldn't expect it to always be 50/50 or close to it. You know what I'd expect?  A team that was at the super bowl 2 years ago to make a lot less of the big stage jitters type mistakes that your boys made.  

Id also expect the team that has the massive and loud crowd at the game to make less mistakes (especially pre snap) than the team that doesn't.

Tell me, how many of those 2nd half penalties were pre snap?

now tell me who you'd expect to commit more penalties, the team with the lead and the number one defense in the NFL, or the team that's behind and desperately trying to get back in it?

Nice job not answering the question. Sounds to me like your making excuses too. You want a discussion? Then add to it instead of stepping around it. 

[crushcard1976]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25481024/micd-up-gary-kubiak-says-broncos-were-offsides-on-panthers-missed-fg  also explains why they did not overturn the incomplete call

[CPantherKing]

25 minutes ago, crushcard1976 said:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25481024/micd-up-gary-kubiak-says-broncos-were-offsides-on-panthers-missed-fg  also explains why they did not overturn the incomplete call

The person who wrote that article does not know what a neutral zone is in football. The neutral zone is the area from the front tip of the ball to the back tip of the ball when it is marked in play. The center positions the ball from the original spot it was marked in play when he prepares to snap it. The area the ball occupied when it was marked in play can be seen from the crown of the centers helmet to the the crown of the DTs helmet. Anything in this area is offsides at the time of the snap. So, we can all see Talib breaks into the neutral zone before the snap.

The issue with the Cotchery catch is that the official who needs to make the call did not see the ball hit the ground. He is confused and looks to an official across the field to determine if he saw it hit the ground. Obviously, no one saw the ball hit the ground and the official who ruled it incomplete came from the opposite side of the field where Cotchery's body shielded the ball from view. If no official has seen the ball hit the ground when Clete conferences with them, then he must over turn the call and rule it a catch. It is up to replay to rule it an incomplete pass. There is no way any official saw that ball hit the ground.

As for the replay, it was conclusive that the tip of the ball never hit the ground. Multiple angles together prove this. We know his hand was under the ball. We also know the ball never touched the ground after he roles on his back and the ball approached the ground the second time. So, this means the tip of the ball is the only part of the ball that could touch the ground and make this an incomplete pass. Everyone agrees with that.

When you watch the replay angles. You will see Cotchery's thumb covers the tip of the ball and his thumb remains between the tip of the ball and the ground. When you watch the video just focus on his thumb since this is the only part of the ball that could make it an incomplete pass. It is easy to see the white part of his glove contrast with the green grass and the brown football.

This was a completed catch and the replay showed it if you look for the tip of the ball.

[crushcard1976]

2 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

The person who wrote that article does not know what a neutral zone is in football. The neutral zone is the area from the front tip of the ball to the back tip of the ball when it is marked in play. The center positions the ball from the original spot it was marked in play when he prepares to snap it. The area the ball occupied when it was marked in play can be seen from the crown of the centers helmet to the the crown of the DTs helmet. Anything in this area is offsides at the time of the snap. So, we can all see Talib breaks into the neutral zone before the snap.

The issue with the Cotchery catch is that the official who needs to make the call did not see the ball hit the ground. He is confused and looks to an official across the field to determine if he saw it hit the ground. Obviously, no one saw the ball hit the ground and the official who ruled it incomplete came from the opposite side of the field where Cotchery's body shielded the ball from view. If no official has seen the ball hit the ground when Clete conferences with them, then he must over turn the call and rule it a catch. It is up to replay to rule it an incomplete pass. There is no way any official saw that ball hit the ground.

As for the replay, it was conclusive that the tip of the ball never hit the ground. Multiple angles together prove this. We know his hand was under the ball. We also know the ball never touched the ground after he roles on his back and the ball approached the ground the second time. So, this means the tip of the ball is the only part of the ball that could touch the ground and make this an incomplete pass. Everyone agrees with that.

When you watch the replay angles. You will see Cotchery's thumb covers the tip of the ball and his thumb remains between the tip of the ball and the ground. When you watch the video just focus on his thumb since this is the only part of the ball that could make it an incomplete pass. It is easy to see the white part of his glove contrast with the green grass and the brown football.

This was a completed catch and the replay showed it if you look for the tip of the ball.

I agree it was a catch just was dumb founded by Blake's confusion.

[BigKing]

18 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

Judgement calls were factored out as this makes every play disputable. Holding, taunting, and contact down field are not important. The only talking point for officiating regarding judgement calls is that they were consistent in their use of those calls for both teams.

This is about definitive penalties which had a direct impact on the play that were missed or bad decisions by the officials.

I looked at it play by play for Denver and I will again. Remember judgement calls like holding are factored out for obvious reasons.

Denver had ONE bad call against them and no missed calls that directly impacted the play. It was the holding penalty on Roby late in the game. While Roby did hold Brown, this was not near the play and did not make an impact on the play as Cam Newton never demonstrated an intent to go to that side of the field. If Cam did look to that side of the field, then the penalty would be correct. While this was a bad call that went against the Broncos, it was the only call the officials decided to pick the flag up. So, Clete Blakeman, who refused to correct any bad calls against the Panthers and directed the responsibility of the bad call to the primary official to make the call with the Panthers coaches protests, did the correct thing by conferencing with the officials and overruling them when it came to the Broncos ONE bad call following the Broncos coaches protest.

This was about ALL blown calls excluding judgement calls like holding and taunting. The issue is there was only one that went against the Broncos, and it is the only one that was corrected with an overrule by Clete Blakeman.

I will go over the game again and focus solely on the Broncos to see if I missed any. If you see any, please post the time in the game the play occurred. Thank you.

I appreciate you going back over the game to perform this exercise, but the batted ball and slight contact to Cam's face mask are not always called: especially the former.

Holding is not always a judgement call: sometimes it is clear as day.

Regardless, we all know the calls went against Carolina.  I'm not going to get up in arms over the batted ball towards the end zone.  That is such a chaotic play and, hell, they clearly watched the Seahawk bat it out of bounds against Detroit this year and didn't call it and that was clear as day.  The fumble in question here had a bunch of large men diving all over the place so I can't chalk that "missed call" up to some Clete Blakeman conspiracy.

Now, I do think they went incomplete on the Cotch catch on the field so Carolina would have to challenge and prove without a doubt it was a catch, which didn't happen.  Also feel that you can't miss the hand on Peyton for the sack and that was purposely let go.  I'm also intrigued by all of the illegal block calls on punt returns when we would get good field position and, of course, not calling any penalties on their secondary--outside of obvious PFs and the one that they picked up and didn't call--but then having the nerve to throw the one on Norman that sealed it.

I think that a lot of the "blown" calls that fall in the missed call category are just that: calls that refs will generally miss in a game. I can piss on Clete no problem, but I can't do it for missing a batted fumble or the contact to Cam's face on the first strip sack.

[Zaximus]

22 minutes ago, BigKing said:

I appreciate you going back over the game to perform this exercise, but the batted ball and slight contact to Cam's face mask are not always called: especially the former.

Holding is not always a judgement call: sometimes it is clear as day.

Regardless, we all know the calls went against Carolina.  I'm not going to get up in arms over the batted ball towards the end zone.  That is such a chaotic play and, hell, they clearly watched the Seahawk bat it out of bounds against Detroit this year and didn't call it and that was clear as day.  The fumble in question here had a bunch of large men diving all over the place so I can't chalk that "missed call" up to some Clete Blakeman conspiracy.

Now, I do think they went incomplete on the Cotch catch on the field so Carolina would have to challenge and prove without a doubt it was a catch, which didn't happen.  Also feel that you can't miss the hand on Peyton for the sack and that was purposely let go.  I'm also intrigued by all of the illegal block calls on punt returns when we would get good field position and, of course, not calling any penalties on their secondary--outside of obvious PFs and the one that they picked up and didn't call--but then having the nerve to throw the one on Norman that sealed it.

I think that a lot of the "blown" calls that fall in the missed call category are just that: calls that refs will generally miss in a game. I can piss on Clete no problem, but I can't do it for missing a batted fumble or the contact to Cam's face on the first strip sack.

Exactly.   That's just more evidence of the league doing shady things.   Without that, Seattle probably doesn't make the playoffs.  If you think about all the really terrible calls over the years, it adds up, things that were just clear as day.  How about that 49ers vs Seattle game (after the 49ers got freebie calls against us all game the game before)?  Remember Bowman laying on his back with a torn up leg holding the fumble, yet they didn't give it to them?   They wanted the Seahawks to proceed.

Remember when the Saints were allowed to just late-hit Favre after every snap on their road to the Super Bowl?  The NFL sat there and let their past-golden boy get crushed just for a Katrina superbowl.  It was a few years after, but man all they did was talk about katrina and show promos of it leading up the superbowl.  That superbowl ended up being the most watched ever, at the time.  I think it was the #2 TV program EVER behind MASH finale.  It may still be the #1 watched Superbowl.