DE targets for this draft

[JawnyBlaze]

Well, it's that time of the year again.  Time to keep this forum up on a new tab.  IMO, DE and CB are the two most vital positions to target in the draft so in this thread I'll be bringing up and discussing guys that could be options for us (mostly 1st-2nd round type guys).  Will edit as I do research accordingly.  The thing I look for most in any DL is quickness off the snap.  In my opinion, the guys that are quickest off the snap have an advantage over everyone else, if you can start faster and get moving quicker you will win more often than not.  This is also something that doesn't really get better.  Guys don't typically learn to fire off the ball faster than they did in college.  It would seem like it's a physical thing that could be improved with physical training, but often times guys that I've seen in college that are noticeably slow or quick off the snap turn out to be the same in the pros, probably has more to do with the brain than one would think.  Reaction time, etc.  Another important quality is obviously motor.  This is another thing that doesn't often change once they get to the pros.  After quickness off the ball and motor, I look for "technique" things as best my untrained eye can.  Things like lunging, leaning, spin/bullrush/swim moves, things like that.  Then finally I look at physical traits such as height, arm length, weight, proportions, etc.  I do most of my research at draftbreadown.com, it's my favorite site for videos because they're not highlight reels, they're breakdowns for full games.  I'll typically only really watch the videos vs the best competition they face but I'll watch them all if there's only a few available.

Shaq Lawson, Clemson:  I've watched a few videos on him, nothing too in depth yet.  He doesn't overly impress me based on the Notre Dame and Florida St. videos.  He's slow as hell off the snap and heavy footed.  Seems to have solid power, but tends to be hesitant.  He does seem to have very good instincts.  Shortish, shorter arms.  As it stands now, would not want in the 1st. https://youtu.be/V6r5341qlaw https://youtu.be/pHMHvzb27LQ

Kevin Dodd, Clemson:  Quicker off the snap than Lawson.  Taller, longer arms.  Decent technique, but plenty of room to improve. Good lean while rushing off the edge to get to the QB.  Looks like a prototypical NFL DE.  Good vs the run and pass, not much weakness to his game.  I'd be more interested in him at #30 than Lawson. https://youtu.be/6ohQ7AY1hQA https://youtu.be/APlMJ6uxUeg

Emmanuel Ogbah, Oklahoma St.:  Whoa, this guy is FAST off the snap!  One of the quickest first steps I've seen from a DE that I can remember.  His motor does seem to run empty at times though.  I saw a number of plays where the ball went away from him initially (QB rollout or RB run to the other side) and he didn't put forth much effort to pursue.  vs Ole Miss his first step was great almost every snap.  vs Baylor he seemed to just stand up and lean on the OT more often than not, so effort seems to be inconsistent.  Technique seems to need a healthy amount of work.  His super quick first step lead to overpursuit sometimes, didn't seem to have any moves to speak of.  He seems strong enough though, good proportions.  A little lean looking, but not a beanpole like some of the other recent highly drafted "tall, skinny" DEs.  I think he'd fill out very well in an NFL strength program.  I'd be happy with him at #30, high ceiling. https://youtu.be/eHpmYf6GucI https://youtu.be/Eu59Fl2otMA

Carl Nassib, Penn St.:  He's a bit slow off the snap, but once he does get moving he gets up to speed pretty quick.  Good size and build.  No technique, but solid stack and shed.  Gets off balance more often than you usually see.  Very raw.  Has the building blocks to develop, but would not want at #30.  Maybe in the 2nd. https://youtu.be/JRZtpsz3IQ4 https://youtu.be/GGwimKgHYrg

Noah Spence, E. Kentucky:  Quick first step, but small.  Looked smaller than every other lineman in both games I watched.  Very quick feet, good awareness.  Good technique and active in stunts and pursuit, but dunno if he has the size for a 4-3 DE.  Not really interested in him for now because of size. https://youtu.be/6GP-YTkbz_o https://youtu.be/b3-6ajYkXow

Bronson Kaufusi, BYU:  SLOW reaction time off the snap.  But once he does react, he gets up to speed quick.  There was only one video on him, the Cincinnati game, so I need more video to really form an opinion.  Maybe this'll look different in other games.  Really good size at 6'6 280, good strength, top end pursuit speed seems really slow but he gets up to that top speed pretty quickly.  The only DE I've seen yet in this draft to actually utilize multiple moves, good spin move for a 6'6 280 guy.  Quick active hands and feet, hand fighting seems really good.  Based on the one video, I think he'd be a good pick at #30. https://youtu.be/Xf29CXC_TN4

DeForest Buckner, Oregon:  His reaction time is quick enough, but he doesn't snap or pop off the ball.  He seems to lunge a little.  If he can be taught to pop when he first moves, he could be dangerous.  No motor issues noticed.  Great size at 6'7, 290.  Good strength.  Great proportions, doesn't look 290.  Very active hands, but they don't always seem to be under control.  Seems his height causes him to lose balance occasionally, but didn't happen often.  If he could learn to explode off the snap, he would remind me a bit of Watt in college.  I have a feeling he'll be gone before it gets to our pick.  He'll be a bit of a project, but great potential.  Reminds me slightly of Arik Armstead last year, but better proportioned and quicker.  Would be happy with him at #30. https://youtu.be/KDhFeqRKVIc https://youtu.be/-p9MvLOyDPc

Shalique Calhoun, Michigan St.:  Very quick first step, very fast get off.  Good overall speed in every way.  Good motor.  However, he's skinny as hell.  Looks like he'll get eaten up by NFL O-linemen.  In the two games I watched (Iowa and Oregon) I don't think he shed a single block.  He DID beat the OL with speed a number of times, he's very fast and has a good repertoire of moves, but if the OL gets his hands on him, Calhoun's done.  If he can put on about 20 lbs of muscle he could be very very good.  He's got the height and the length already, he's just too damn light.  If Gettleman is confident he can put on the weight and maintain the quickness, he'd be worth our 1st.  If there's any doubt, no higher than mid rounds (though I'm sure some other team would grab him before that.)  At his current size his ceiling is Mario Addison, in my opinion.  https://youtu.be/A6LlP5xpfHk https://youtu.be/VBLfLYu9j2U

 

For now, my ranking of interest is:

1. Ogbah
2. Dodd
3. Kaufusi
4. Buckner
5. Calhoun
6. Nassib
7. Lawson
8. Spence

[MV%doe]

Nice work blaze.

 

BUT, im not a nassib fan at ALL. I reverse the right to change my opinion in the future but right now I wouldnt touch him til fourth round. I mean it would depends on whos there in the panthers 3rd. I got him as a late 3rd early 5th pick. Hes my hump of this draft. Just too much other talent with upside.

 

Which bring me to Dodd, I got him as going before Lawson around 15th. Upside upside

Spence is off my draft board, anytime a great player gets kicked off a big time college team. I think he's a big time player and surly will be a 1st, but I know the panthers will not be drafting him either. You have to murder/ rape someone multiple times to get kicked off. That guy let his teammates down and gave the school/coaching staff monster headaches. I don't want those types on my team. 

 

Im veeeeeery curious about how's Lawson's knee rehab is going, cause I would not mind him in a panther jersey. It could lead to him fall down draft boards and benefit the panthers.

Reguardless I believe there will be a few options at DT, DE,OT and CB(big fuller fan here) for the panthers at 30.

[JawnyBlaze]

Yea, I actually had a different writeup for Nassib at first, and then went back and watched a couple more games' videos and he looked better.  I dunno which games of his you've watched, so I dunno if you're opinion is drawn from the same ones my original opinion was or if you've seen everything I have.  The first couple games' videos I watched he was slow as hell and I had a similar opinion as yours, 3rd/4th round.  Then the next couple games I watched were a little more impressive.  I saw the tools to build a good DE.  Like you, I'm sure my opinion on most of these guys will change at least somewhat as I do more research.

I didn't know that about Spence, I've only watched a few videos on each of these guys, no other research so far.  He was already off my board, but now he has very little chance of further videos/research redeeming him heh. 

[MV%doe]

My main issue with nassib is he in a deep pool of DEs\pass rushers. No way have I watched all the tape, but I've came away very unimpressed. (Couple games in a drunken haze as well) I know he will interview well, I mean Im racist when it comes to certain spots as well. I just think he will have a hard time with NFL OTs. His movement is a big issue for me too, plus add to the fact he was walk-on. I always preferred players that big schools fough over. Walk-ons that triHard there way on the team and only have one year of goods, that's a tough sell for me personally. I pick on combine crap, but I will change my opinion if nassib moves fluid compared to the army of other DE\OLBs. I even want to compare his walk, yes his walking to others.

[JawnyBlaze]

added Kaufusi and Buckner.

[stirs]

From what I remember, Nassib traditionally played at a much lighter weight.  This could be part of the quickness issue.  He will probably be better playing at a 34 end, and losing 15 lbs or so

[imminent rogaine]

Nassib seems really stiff to me, reminds me a little of what Allen is today, not in his prime. Not really interested.

I haven't watched video on all of the potential DEs but I'm really feeling Bullard from Florida,  Kaufusi from BYU, and throw in Dodd for my top 3.

Bullard reminds me of Hardy, a sturdier DE that is strong and can help run stop. Guy is STRONG. From Shelby.

Kaufusi seems pretty well-rounded. Big enough, fast enough though doesn't really look quick.

Funny enough, CBS sports has Dodd comparing to Kony Ealy. Seems a little quicker, looks like he can get around the edge fairly well.

Every player has some sort of weakness; I wonder what DG, Ron, and co just completely ignore because they know they can fix with coaching/weights/diet etc.

 

Edit: Ogbah if is there but I feel like he might gain some popularity as we get closer to the draft.

[Gin and Juice]

Problem with any PSU player, if any, is inflated stats due to 3 college studs on that line. Zettel, Johnson, and Nassib. Give me a singular stud that was on a crappy D-Line, much like KK in college.

 

[ncfan]

On February 12, 2016 at 10:29 AM, imminent rogaine said:

Nassib seems really stiff to me, reminds me a little of what Allen is today, not in his prime. Not really interested.

I haven't watched video on all of the potential DEs but I'm really feeling Bullard from Florida,  Kaufusi from BYU, and throw in Dodd for my top 3.

Bullard reminds me of Hardy, a sturdier DE that is strong and can help run stop. Guy is STRONG. From Shelby.

Kaufusi seems pretty well-rounded. Big enough, fast enough though doesn't really look quick.

Funny enough, CBS sports has Dodd comparing to Kony Ealy. Seems a little quicker, looks like he can get around the edge fairly well.

Every player has some sort of weakness; I wonder what DG, Ron, and co just completely ignore because they know they can fix with coaching/weights/diet etc.

 

Edit: Ogbah if is there but I feel like he might gain some popularity as we get closer to the draft.

You say Nassib is to stiff then go on to say you have Bullard and Kaufusi in your top 3?

Bullard and Kaufusi are possibly the stiffest guys for 4-3 ends coming out.  Bullard really hasn't played as a outside rusher.  He played more of a Rush DT in college.  Guy is going to be a 3-4 DE, and a horrible fit for us.  Kaufusi has horrible bend.  He has some speed for his size and shown a couple spin moves etc.  But he is going to be a major project and may not even be a good fit for a DE.  Most scouts I have read have talked how he is to stiff and don't have him going higher than the 4th round.

 

 

Im higher on Nassib than some on here,  once you get past Ogbah and Dodd your not going to find someone who can come right in and start.  Nassib has all the tools, Height, Weight, Speed, and Strength.  We are going to get a Vet in.  Nassib is just starting to hit his potential.  He came in as a walk-on light weight.  He's a gym rat, and one of the hardest workers in this draft.  Thats what you want.  I'm not comparing him to Luke but thats the biggest things that has made Luke so good is his work ethic.  Same with JJ Watt who started out as a Walk-on and was a late bloomer, with good Measurables and what most said a top tier work ethic.  You let rotate in behind a Vet who starts and he could be a d@mn good player here in 2-3 years, and a solid player in a year.  Nassib has Good Size Speed,  is a Gym Rat, Super Smart (Big10 All-Acememic team 2 years), and has been quoted as one of the hardest workers out there.  Thats what I want in a DE, thats the formula for a top tier player. He is still pretty raw but with a kid as smart as him and work ethic, he can improve rapidly.

[KDawg004]

I wouldn't mind Nassib in the 2nd round. Not in the 1st.

Dodd is interesting but I'm a little wary on one year wonders.

[MV%doe]

On 2/12/2016 at 11:25 PM, stirs said:

From what I remember, Nassib traditionally played at a much lighter weight.  This could be part of the quickness issue.  He will probably be better playing at a 34 end, and losing 15 lbs or so

So he gained 20 or so lbs this past season....? Things the make you go hmmmm. 

[JawnyBlaze]

added links to videos.

[davos]

Great thread Blaze.  I'd push for this to be on the main board. 

Looking back, last year's class was so different than this one.  The closest thing to a 4-3 DE taken in the first was Bud Dupree who ended up going to Pittsburgh as a Rushing LB which is his more natural position anyways.

Bosa, Lawson, Bullard, Dodd, some solid talent.

That Kaufusi kid is interesting.   

[KB_fan]

Fantastic thread.  I won't get a chance to look at any of these videos for awhile with nearly a month of travel and big reports and meetings ahead of me, but come early April, it will be fun to watch some of these guys.