We need a DE... so whom?

[Bartin]

Olivier Vernon is 26 and just had the 2nd most QB pressures in the NFL behind JJ Watt for DEs. He is going to cost $12M+ which is way out of the price range which we can pay unless we don't re-sign Kawann Short. Basically there is no chance in hell we can get him.

[The Lone Panther]

A vet DE (JPP most likely) to start along side Ealy, Addison and our rookie draft pick (Spence or Ogbah) as rotation guys, Delaire on passing downs. Cox on the PS. 

[Squirrel]

fine bring back Peppers. 

 

[JawnyBlaze]

Just now, carolina-chuck2 said:

If Irvin is set to make 10mil, Vernon is going to demand more.

I would be surprised if Irvin gets 10mil.  He's not that good, and if a 4-3 team gives him 10mil it'll be even more crazy.  He might be effective in a 3-4, we'll see.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Vernon.dude is a beast set to peak real soon that would set us up to go bpa for OT,S,CB at 31 

[beastson]

20 minutes ago, Bartin said:

Olivier Vernon is 26 and just had the 2nd most QB pressures in the NFL behind JJ Watt for DEs. He is going to cost $12M+ which is way out of the price range which we can pay unless we don't re-sign Kawann Short. Basically there is no chance in hell we can get him.

CJ was 15 mil for this season. CJ and Allen cut before June 1st alone is 19 mil cap savings. 

[Carolina Cajun]

It's Such a shame that Hardy is a real POS, he'd dominate in our defense.  I have a hard time seeing anyone outside of maybe the Bengals give the guy another chance.  I actually think it's kind of likely that someone like JPP will end up here.

[thefuzz]

10 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

I would be surprised if Irvin gets 10mil.  He's not that good, and if a 4-3 team gives him 10mil it'll be even more crazy.  He might be effective in a 3-4, we'll see.

This Super Bowl will push teams to over spend on edge rushers.

[Bartin]

Just now, beastson said:

CJ was 15 mil for this season. CJ and Allen cut before June 1st alone is 19 mil cap savings. 

Tagging Norman takes away $14M of that. Short is going into the final year of his deal and it would be good to lock him up now before he gets even more expensive. Star will get the 5th year option after this year for ~$8M. Kalil's contract expires after next year and I'd think we would want to bring him back for a couple more years. Trai will need a new deal in the next two years. Norwell needs a new deal in the next two years. Bene needs a new deal in the next two years. Kony needs a new deal in the next two years. Oher's contract expires after next year, we have no LT waiting in the wings and signing him is going to be a lot more expensive than it was before.

We are probably not going to be able to afford to re-sign all of those guys. Spending $12-15M per year for 5-6 years on Vernon makes it so we can sign even fewer of those guys. Gettleman's strategy is to retain your core, build through the draft and supplement with cheap FA signings. Signing Vernon goes against all of that. Theoretically it is possible to sign him, but it is impossible to do so without making major sacrifices on keeping some of the young guys that make up our core right now and it goes against Gettleman's philosophy. It's not going to happen.

[Squirrel]

29 minutes ago, Bartin said:

Tagging Norman takes away $14M of that. Short is going into the final year of his deal and it would be good to lock him up now before he gets even more expensive. Star will get the 5th year option after this year for ~$8M. Kalil's contract expires after next year and I'd think we would want to bring him back for a couple more years. Trai will need a new deal in the next two years. Norwell needs a new deal in the next two years. Bene needs a new deal in the next two years. Kony needs a new deal in the next two years. Oher's contract expires after next year, we have no LT waiting in the wings and signing him is going to be a lot more expensive than it was before.

We are probably not going to be able to afford to re-sign all of those guys. Spending $12-15M per year for 5-6 years on Vernon makes it so we can sign even fewer of those guys. Gettleman's strategy is to retain your core, build through the draft and supplement with cheap FA signings. Signing Vernon goes against all of that. Theoretically it is possible to sign him, but it is impossible to do so without making major sacrifices on keeping some of the young guys that make up our core right now and it goes against Gettleman's philosophy. It's not going to happen.

Right now we are 20 million under the presumed cap.  Add almost another 19 million cutting CJ and Allen we are sitting at 40 million under. Throw in Stewart we are at 46 million under. If that all happens we will be in great shape to resign the players we want including Norman and pick up a top tier free agent. 

[Jmac]

39 minutes ago, Bartin said:

Tagging Norman takes away $14M of that. Short is going into the final year of his deal and it would be good to lock him up now before he gets even more expensive. Star will get the 5th year option after this year for ~$8M. Kalil's contract expires after next year and I'd think we would want to bring him back for a couple more years. Trai will need a new deal in the next two years. Norwell needs a new deal in the next two years. Bene needs a new deal in the next two years. Kony needs a new deal in the next two years. Oher's contract expires after next year, we have no LT waiting in the wings and signing him is going to be a lot more expensive than it was before.

We are probably not going to be able to afford to re-sign all of those guys. Spending $12-15M per year for 5-6 years on Vernon makes it so we can sign even fewer of those guys. Gettleman's strategy is to retain your core, build through the draft and supplement with cheap FA signings. Signing Vernon goes against all of that. Theoretically it is possible to sign him, but it is impossible to do so without making major sacrifices on keeping some of the young guys that make up our core right now and it goes against Gettleman's philosophy. It's not going to happen.

So basically you are saying we are up against it. Can't afford a top tier DE while tagging Norman, with KK coming next,  then Star. JPP will be at least 10 mil (if the Giants let him walk), and Coples (meh). So whats this mean??  CJ at a cut rate and hope for the best? Have to do better then this.

 

[Ship]

one thing that makes me wary about us actually signing a top FA regardless of money is what we have said before about our locker room. part of the magic the past 3 seasons is that we have young guys, wily vets, and medium aged guys who were previously under valued and motivated to prove their worth as starters. that combination is part of what gives our team its drive. that chemistry stays intact when the guys getting the money are either homegrown players who worked up or FAs who have strived for and achieved a good deal. i don't think that same chemistry stays intact when an outsider comes in and immediately makes bank-- especially when it may appear to come at the expensive of a homegrown guy who worked his way up (Norman). i don't even think it matters if the outside FA is a good guy who works hard or not. almost no matter what you send a message that you may actually not get rewarded for coming here or growing here and i think it degrades the chemistry-- even if it is a slight degradation.

therefore, i think we either pick a guy who has slumped like JPP or Hardy, a guy who is waiting to break out and willing to take a lesser prove it deal (Vernon only fits one of these two requirements), or an older solid vet who can hold down the spot while our next draft pick grows.

[Bartin]

16 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Right now we are 20 million under the presumed cap.  Add almost another 19 million cutting CJ and Allen we are sitting at 40 million under. Throw in Stewart we are at 46 million under. If that all happens we will be in great shape to resign the players we want including Norman and pick up a top tier free agent. 

Tagging Josh, extending Kawann, RFA tendering Remmers then bring back Love, Nortman, Tolbert, Webb, Jansen and Chris Scott and you're already down to $13M in cap space. That's without cutting Stew(who are you replacing him with) or signing vet replacements for Roman, Tillman and Cotchery as Gettleman likes to do to fill all holes to setup for BPA in the draft. Also, Gettleman always wants to have at least $5M in cap space for emergencies during the season. Even if you cut Stew, just to get us in position during FA to take BPA in the draft would leave us with $10M in usable cap room. You can squeeze Vernon in there with bonus structures and what not by pushing money down the line like Hurney did, but then you are compromising our ability to bring back guys like Star, Kony, Bene and Josh for another year in the future. It's a win now move and Gettleman has consistently shown that he prefers to look long term.

[JawnyBlaze]

8 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Right now we are 20 million under the presumed cap.  Add almost another 19 million cutting CJ and Allen we are sitting at 40 million under. Throw in Stewart we are at 46 million under. If that all happens we will be in great shape to resign the players we want including Norman and pick up a top tier free agent. 

I don't think we're cutting Stewart. So let's use that $40mil number. Let's say ~$10mil to go toward either CJ (on a new deal, if we do another deal with him hopefully it would be even less than 10) or another FA DE like Vernon. 

Now we're at $30mil.  $14mil goes toward Norman's franchise tag.

$16mil. I'm gonna guesstimate $12-13mil for Short's new contract. 

$3-4mil left for rookies.

Thats right up against it. One would have to believe that Gettleman has some tricks up his sleeve to make some more room.  The best thing is to get a deal done with Norman for $10-11mil and that gives us $3-4mil more, because we'll still need a few more role players to fill in some gaps (like Coleman, Peanut, etc were this past year.)