Brandon Marshall:"Panthers did everything we saw on film"

[TheRed]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Again, not accurate.  

The Super Bowl did't require a herculean effort from Cam, honestly only an efficient one, along with an efficient game from Stew, Olsen, Tolbert, Ginn, etc....

We didn't get it. 

You can only chalk it up to execution for so long.

When the defense knows exactly what is coming, it's time to mix it up a bit. Instead of running Stewart up the gut literally almost every first down for no gain or a loss. Then calling long developing routes on second down that lead to an incompletion, and follow up by a third and long where the defense can just sit back, and go after the QB.

Our offensive players certainly made mistakes, but far too often we put them in positions to fail rather than succeed. That's coaching.

[thefuzz]

Just now, TheRed said:

You can only chalk it up to execution for so long.

When the defense knows exactly what is coming, it's time to mix it up a bit. Instead of running Stewart up the gut literally almost every first down for no gain or a loss. Then calling long developing routes on second down that lead to an incompletion, and follow up by a third and long where the defense can just sit back, and go after the QB.

Our offensive players certainly made mistakes, but far too often we put them in positions to fail rather than succeed. That's coaching.

I disagree, wholeheartedly.

Things we can blame for the loss:

1:  Field

2:  Refs

3:  Coaching

4:  Lack of fans there/Lack of "homefield"

5:  Lack of execution by the players

 

I can point to all of these as to why we lost, and 4 of the 5 are small elephants in the room, however the lack of execution is by far the largest.

Ginns "drop" for an INT, Cam and Tolberts fumbles, the missed FG....

Any of those things don't happen, we probably win the game, all of those can be attributed to the players lack of execution.

 

 

[TheRed]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I disagree, wholeheartedly.

Things we can blame for the loss:

1:  Field

2:  Refs

3:  Coaching

4:  Lack of fans there/Lack of "homefield"

5:  Lack of execution by the players

 

I can point to all of these as to why we lost, and 4 of the 5 are small elephants in the room, however the lack of execution is by far the largest.

Ginns "drop" for an INT, Cam and Tolberts fumbles, the missed FG....

Any of those things don't happen, we probably win the game, all of those can be attributed to the players lack of execution.

 

 

Even with all this miscues from poor execution, we were still in position to win the game heading late into the 4th.

Are you forgetting all those delay of game penalties because of how long it was taking to get the play call in?

Obviously it was a perfect storm of fug ups by our team that led to the outcome, no one is completely absolved of blame. But I'm not going to lie to myself, and say that a few better coaching adjustments here and there on the offense couldn't have substantially helped win us the game.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, TheRed said:

Even with all this miscues from poor execution, we were still in position to win the game heading late into the 4th.

Are you forgetting all those delay of game penalties because of how long it was taking to get the play call in?

Obviously it was a perfect storm of fug ups by our team that led to the outcome, no one is completely absolved of blame. But I'm not going to lie to myself, and say that a few better coaching adjustments here and there on the offense couldn't have substantially helped win us the game.

I'm not forgetting anything, and not glossing over the poor coaching job.  (I didn't like the gameplan either)

However, the players miscues cost us this game plain and simple.  4 turnovers in the Super Bowl rarely gets you a win, this one is no different.

Go back and look at some of the throws, some of the runs, the dropped passes....that is on the players, and it's the one thing that had me worried all week, and frustrated for the past 3 days.

Big time players make big time plays, problem was, we only got them from the defensive side of the ball.

[TheRed]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I'm not forgetting anything, and not glossing over the poor coaching job.  (I didn't like the gameplan either)

However, the players miscues cost us this game plain and simple.  4 turnovers in the Super Bowl rarely gets you a win, this one is no different.

Go back and look at some of the throws, some of the runs, the dropped passes....that is on the players, and it's the one thing that had me worried all week, and frustrated for the past 3 days.

Big time players make big time plays, problem was, we only got them from the defensive side of the ball.

Pointing out that the player miscues lost us the game without directly acknowledging that circumstances like consistently taking forever to get the play call in directly tie in with putting the players in a disadvantageous situation while helping the defense sounds like a bit like glossing over the poor coaching job.

[thefuzz]

Just now, TheRed said:

Pointing out that the player miscues lost us the game without directly acknowledging that circumstances like consistently taking forever to get the play call in directly tie in with putting the players in a disadvantageous situation while helping the defense sounds like a bit like glossing over the poor coaching job.

Are you really making excuses for the drops, fumbles, overthrows, etc?  Or did you gloss over that part of the game?

 

The lights were too bright for this team, the coaches, players....everyone.  However the players were put in a position to be able to win this game, and couldn't, multiple times.  That cannot be overlooked or glossed over.

Shula can't hold onto the ball, he can't catch a seam route, or pick up a free blitzer.  I have been critical of Shula for a long time now, but this game lies squarely at the feet of the players, and I think that Cam knew that as well.  Hence everyone up in arms over his body language, press conference, attitude, etc.  I don't get into those things, as I don't care, but the product on the field Sunday was lacking..not in ability, but execution.

[TheRed]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Are you really making excuses for the drops, fumbles, overthrows, etc?  Or did you gloss over that part of the game?

 

The lights were too bright for this team, the coaches, players....everyone.  However the players were put in a position to be able to win this game, and couldn't, multiple times.  That cannot be overlooked or glossed over.

Shula can't hold onto the ball, he can't catch a seam route, or pick up a free blitzer.  I have been critical of Shula for a long time now, but this game lies squarely at the feet of the players, and I think that Cam knew that as well.  Hence everyone up in arms over his body language, press conference, attitude, etc.  I don't get into those things, as I don't care, but the product on the field Sunday was lacking..not in ability, but execution.

If I'm supposedly making excuses for the players, are you not doing the same for the coaching?

It's a two way street. I'm not absolving the players, or the coaches of blame. They are both responsible for that loss. Period.

Who gives a poo about Cam's body language, or a press conference, only mouth breathing fools worry about that. We lost the Super Bowl. That's what I was worried about.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, TheRed said:

If I'm supposedly making excuses for the players, are you not doing the same for the coaching?

It's a two way street. I'm not absolving the players, or the coaches of blame. They are both responsible for that loss. Period.

Who gives a poo about Cam's body language, or a press conference, only mouth breathing fools worry about that. We lost the Super Bowl. That's what I was worried about.

I'm not making excuses for the coaches either....I just put about 70% blame for the loss on the offensive players, they just couldn't get out of their own way.

[TheRed]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I'm not making excuses for the coaches either....I just put about 70% blame for the loss on the offensive players, they just couldn't get out of their own way.

I agree, but as a coach, when you see what the defense is doing, why not try to switch things up to put your players in a better situation? That's basically all I've been saying, but you keep going back to the players like I'm arguing that they didn't fug up. I knew they did, you do, and so do they. But moving forward we need to learn from this, and start making proper adjustments, this was a problem for years, that I thought we had corrected this season. But it reared it's head again. That is what I've been saying.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

I severely disagree.

With the refs against us, our receivers not getting separation or catching for that matter, our protection getting overwhelmed, our playcalling being bi-polar, our RBs getting pulverized at the LOS, our Special Teams making mistake after mistake, etc a herculean performance from Cam was needed. 

No, it's not.

A simple 200 yards passing with 1 TD and 1 turnover from the QB positon would have won this game, that's far from a herculean effort.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, TheRed said:

I agree, but as a coach, when you see what the defense is doing, why not try to switch things up to put your players in a better situation? That's basically all I've been saying, but you keep going back to the players like I'm arguing that they didn't fug up. I knew they did, you do, and so do they. But moving forward we need to learn from this, and start making proper adjustments, this was a problem for years, that I thought we had corrected this season. But it reared it's head again. That is what I've been saying.

I somewhat agree. 

 

Let's just say this, imagine that no changes were made at all, now we know that isn't the case, but just say it is.

Would we have won the game with just 1 fewer turnover and the field goal?  My say is yes, we would have walked out of there with a win....you just can't turn the ball over like we did, and that is much more so on the players rather the coaches.

[Ivan The Awesome]

This is why I keep saying it was bad play calling.  Even good play calls can be bad if the opposition has already seen what you got. It's what defenses do. Figure you out. If you don't change the plan don't expect it to work all of a sudden.. 

[SZ James (banned)]

At what point is it okay to place the majority of blame on a coordinator? Any coach who loses his job in the NFL probably has a team that has miscues, turnovers, and so on. So should those guys never be held accountable? 

[thefuzz]

Just now, SZ James (banned) said:

At what point is it okay to place the majority of blame on a coordinator? Any coach who loses his job in the NFL probably has a team that has miscues, turnovers, and so on. So should those guys never be held accountable? 

Cam doesn't throw the INT, we probably win.

Tolbert doesn't fumble, we probably win.

Cam/Remmers don't get a strip fumble into the end zone, we probably win.

Gano hits the field goal, we probably win.

Cotch catches the ball inside the 10, we probably win.

Any one or two of those happen, we probably win.

That is 100% on the players.  Could the coaches have put them in better situations?  Sure, but had any of those guys do what they are paid to do, and we probably win.