Making a Murderer

[thefuzz]

On 2/21/2016 at 1:15 PM, hepcat said:

Seems pretty obvious to me he killed that girl, but the cops botched all the evidence handling and might have planted evidence.  There was plenty of reason to grant a mistrial.  

I'm not convinced Steven did or didn't kill the girl.

I'm not convinced Brenden saw/helped/covered up/etc...the murder of that girl.

What I am convinced is that the jurors in both instances were either bullied, or had the assumption of guilt from the opening statements of both trials.  I'm convinced that there wasn't enough physical evidence to put either man in prison for as long as either of them were put in prison.

I'm convinced that the judge should have immediately had a retrial of Brenden as soon as he found out his defense tried to get him to plea guilty, when he clearly didn't want to.

I'm convinced that the best course of action is to always have an attorney with you when the police question you, no matter what.

I'm convinced that both of those men should not be in jail.

I'm not convinced that they are innocent.

[Proudiddy]

I think Avery and Dassey are both simple people...  idiots, if you will.  They aren't very smart, and in fact, probably are downright creepy and unpleasant by most social standards.  But, that doesn't make them criminals, just convenient scapegoats.

Their lack of wherewithal and common sense played them right into their current situations.  Regardless, i was absolutely baffled that the state did what they did, from Dassey's entire debacle, to the prosecutors, to the judges hearing both men's cases, to the juries.  So much of what happened just seemed like a purposeful effort to railroad Avery and his family.  The fact that a judge accepted so much circumstantial evidence as grounds for a conviction, and then to have appeals courts uphold the convictions and  further cement their idiocy despite all that was blatantly wrong with it is beyond belief.

You dont need the doc to tell you what they want you to believe...  the obvious planting of evidence by a police dept that already previously, and purposely, wrongly convicted avery and took away years of his life should have made it a mistrial right off the bat.  Despite the dept claiming to not be a part of the investigation to avoid conflicts of interest considering the ongoing suit against them, they still showed up and did a lot of the heavy lifting, and no one batted an eye.  You have investigators illegally coercing and leading Dassey into telling the story they want told, and they arent ever held accountable for it.  In fact, they are heralded for it.  It's just downright backwards and corrupt.  Then, the stories they came up with to fill in the blanks actually were the worst possible fabrications they could come up with...  even someone with a background in forensics could not possibly clean up behind themselves 100% had they murdered Halbach the way the investigators suggested.  Blood spatter or outright drenching would've occurred in either the bed or the garage, and yet, they could not find one shred of physical evidence in either location.  Why?  Because she wasnt murdered there or murdered by Avery or Dassey.  It's just not possible...

And oh yeah, the forensics lady contaminating the evidence they tried to use, lol...  those are some real award winning, competent civil servants there.

[Zaximus]

On 2/25/2016 at 10:00 AM, thefuzz said:

I'm not convinced Steven did or didn't kill the girl.

I'm not convinced Brenden saw/helped/covered up/etc...the murder of that girl.

What I am convinced is that the jurors in both instances were either bullied, or had the assumption of guilt from the opening statements of both trials.  I'm convinced that there wasn't enough physical evidence to put either man in prison for as long as either of them were put in prison.

I'm convinced that the judge should have immediately had a retrial of Brenden as soon as he found out his defense tried to get him to plea guilty, when he clearly didn't want to.

I'm convinced that the best course of action is to always have an attorney with you when the police question you, no matter what.

I'm convinced that both of those men should not be in jail.

I'm not convinced that they are innocent.

Yeah always have an attorney.  I don't know why people don't know this by now.  Even if you're innocent, get one, because the cops will lie and twist your words.

Also they aren't really supposed to be able to question a minor without a parent and they said his mom "allowed it".  She said they wouldn't let her in there.   I believe her and the fact she didn't understand her rights.   I doubt she would have chose to not go in.

[thefuzz]

22 hours ago, Zaximus said:

Yeah always have an attorney.  I don't know why people don't know this by now.  Even if you're innocent, get one, because the cops will lie and twist your words.

Also they aren't really supposed to be able to question a minor without a parent and they said his mom "allowed it".  She said they wouldn't let her in there.   I believe her and the fact she didn't understand her rights.   I doubt she would have chose to not go in.

To the point about not understanding the need to have an attorney, I would assume that many just don't think they can afford it, my call is that you can't afford not to have one present.

If you can't, just keep your trap shut.  No matter how tired, how hungry, how much you have to use the bathroom, how scared you are, just don't talk.

Tell them you are invoking your right to remain silent, and do so.