Shula proved me wrong. Philly has defined his role, and Ginn is a real, play-making WR.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

Oh, wouldn't you know the peanut gallery would chime in.

Your crapnipulation of hyperbole needs a little work.

I've missed you too.

[shaqattaq]

On 1/30/2016 at 9:27 PM, iamhubby1 said:

 

Not sure you can say this for certain. Who knows what Shula would do if our O-line was this good from the get go? Would he stick with the traditional Power Run, with a sprinkling of Read Option? Would he have evolved into Cam's best friend in regards to play calling?

 

IMO, the evolution of this Offense is a compilation of the communication between Shula and Cam. Shula asked Cam what he likes and what he didn't like. They tweaked this Offense to fit Cam. Not sure whether the O-line was a factor in their thinking. I just think it was a fortunate by product of having the Gman in control.

 

Sure the O-line has made things easier. I just don't think it was a consideration on how this Offense was built.

True, I'm certainly no expert. The communication between Cam and Shula obviously plays a big part in how well things are going. A good O-line, however, is a must have for any offense to succeed. Cam's maturation as a QB would have been expedited if he wasn't constantly under pressure for the first few years. I, like Gettleman, loves me some Hog mollies.

[iamhubby1]

41 minutes ago, shaqattaq said:

True, I'm certainly no expert. The communication between Cam and Shula obviously plays a big part in how well things are going. A good O-line, however, is a must have for any offense to succeed. Cam's maturation as a QB would have been expedited if he wasn't constantly under pressure for the first few years. I, like Gettleman, loves me some Hog mollies.

 

Yea, ask Brady what having a decent O-line can do for you. No O-line means your Offense suffers.

[t96]

On January 31, 2016 at 9:03 AM, top dawg said:

I don't remember saying that he wouldn't make another team's roster. I did say that I didn't believe that teams would actually put in a waiver claim for him if he were cut. I also said that he would not start on any other team in the league---which I still believe--but perhaps he has had enough modest success whereby someone would actually put in a waiver claim if he were put on the market.

BTW, JAGs have their place too, unless they're just horrible.

Your love for Philly is really legendary on the Huddle, but, like I said, you pulled back on the reigns quite a bit when it really became clear that Philly wasn't D-Jax or T.Y. Hilton (for example).  

I hope Philly continues to improve, but even if doesn't he is the type of WR who can make defenses pay if they forget about him. If he can just learn or figure out a way to get off the line quicker from more physical defensive backs, he would raise his stock substantially. He is good at misdirection plays like a reverse, but his bread and butter comes when he gets behind the defense.

I never "pulled back on the reigns" and never compared him to a Hilton or Jackson or any other receiver on that level. 

[csx]

There are JAGs on every teams roster.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, thomas96 said:

I never "pulled back on the reigns" and never compared him to a Hilton or Jackson or any other receiver on that level. 

Those were just examples. You did say that you wouldn't be surprised if he breaks out like Victor Cruz. That's some pretty high praise. I respect him as a person and player, for what he does, but I dont believe Philly is on that level. And a healthy Cruz is more than the number thre wide-out on a team any day of the week. You can't have it both ways. You send mixed messages and hedge bets by saying he is a WR3, but then break out Victor Cruz. 

Moreover, "JAG" is a relative term. As far as I am concerned, there are multiple so-called WR3s in this league who are also JAGs. That doesn't mean they are bad players, just not superstars that teams will go out of their way to keep and pay, or that the opposition will actually gameplan for. Multiple WR3s in this league are easily upgradable. 

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, csx said:

There are JAGs on every teams roster.

You're absolutely correct. The problem is that people get caught up on who and what a "JAG" is.

I mean, was Deion Branch a JAG? Probably closer to a being JAG than a super star, but he did define an important role for the Pats, and that's a good thing for him, and was a good thing for the Patriots' organization.  

If Brown could give us the same quality of Branch the next few years, I would be pleased, but honestly I want him to do more.

[t96]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

Those were just examples. You did say that you wouldn't be surprised if he breaks out like Victor Cruz. That's some pretty high praise. I respect him as a person and player, for what he does, but I dont believe Philly is on that level. And a healthy Cruz is more than the number thre wide-out on a team any day of the week. You can't have it both ways. You send mixed messages and hedge bets by saying he is a WR3, but then break out Victor Cruz. 

Moreover, "JAG" I'd a relative term. As far as I am concerned, there are multiple so-called WR3s in this league who are also JAGs. That doesn't mean they are bad players, just not superstars that teams will go out of their way to keep and pay, or that the opposition will actuallt gameplan for. Multiple WR3s in this league are easily upgradable. 

Wouldn't be surprised at something happening and predicting it to happen are completely different things. And of course he's not on that level right now. But what I've learned in my life of watching sports is that there is no such thing as a ceiling when it comes to player development.

 

It seems to me like you think such great wide receivers are easy to come by. JAG stands for "just another guy" if I'm not mistaken. I think that's the most ridiculous term in football lingo that I've seen used. Any player called a JAG should be insulted. It's more befitting of practice squad players than players like Philly or other "WR3s" and even then I still wouldn't use it. If WR3s throughout the league are so easy to upgrade, then why do most of them stick around and contribute for years and years in the league? Proehl was a "WR3" his entire career. Why do we need Philly to be a superstar WR? It seems like you want every WR on the team to be a superstar WR if you're cool with just tossing guys like Philly off the team. Of course we should look to upgrade every single position all the time, but that's not realistic or even possible in most cases. Non-superstar players like Philly are just as important to teams succeeding as the superstars are. You can have a dozen superstars but if the rest of the players all belong in college football you won't win games. I think Philly certainly could end up with a career like Proehl's for us and it wouldn't surprise me if he did even better. Would you just toss Proehl out because a WR3 like that is so easily upgradable?

[top dawg]

10 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

Wouldn't be surprised at something happening and predicting it to happen are completely different things. And of course he's not on that level right now. But what I've learned in my life of watching sports is that there is no such thing as a ceiling when it comes to player development.

 

It seems to me like you think such great wide receivers are easy to come by. JAG stands for "just another guy" if I'm not mistaken. I think that's the most ridiculous term in football lingo that I've seen used. Any player called a JAG should be insulted. It's more befitting of practice squad players than players like Philly or other "WR3s" and even then I still wouldn't use it. If WR3s throughout the league are so easy to upgrade, then why do most of them stick around and contribute for years and years in the league? Proehl was a "WR3" his entire career. Why do we need Philly to be a superstar WR? It seems like you want every WR on the team to be a superstar WR if you're cool with just tossing guys like Philly off the team. Of course we should look to upgrade every single position all the time, but that's not realistic or even possible in most cases. Non-superstar players like Philly are just as important to teams succeeding as the superstars are. You can have a dozen superstars but if the rest of the players all belong in college football you won't win games. I think Philly certainly could end up with a career like Proehl's for us and it wouldn't surprise me if he did even better. Would you just toss Proehl out because a WR3 like that is so easily upgradable?

Proehl would have been desired on any team in the NFL. Don't downplay Proehl because he was rolling with HOFERs for much of his career. 

Philly is what he is. You may not agree, but I can go down the list of rosters in this league, and the only place that Philly gets any substantial playing time is here.

As for WR3s in general, perhaps if I change from "upgradeable" to "replaceable", perhaps you can stomach that a little more.  

 

[Swedish Butt-Whistle]

Top Dawg, Corey Brown most certainly performed better than other WR3 in the league. He's around the level of Cecil Shorts III 17th ranked WR3. 31 REC for 447 Yards. 0 Fumbles. 14.1 yards average per rec. More importantly, an improvement over his rookie season, should continue to improve. 

[cgarsmoker]

The best thing Shula ever figured out was letting Cam run no huddle, picking up the tempo, and calling the plays at the line of scrimmage.   

[top dawg]

@Swedish Butt-Whiste One thing that you and a lot of people don't know, or just want to conveniently forget is that Corey Brown got more snaps than any receiver on our roster this year. He got  WR2 snaps at least, so these comparisons to Shorts or any other receiver of that level this year based purely on production is somewhat shortsighted (pun intended). As for him improving, I already stated that, and said that I hope that he continues to improve. The thing is is that people need to stop acting like Brown lit the world on fire. He did his job, as well as all of our receivers, and that was good enough to get us to the Super Bowl. That is a feat unto itself. Brown played his role, and that is commendable. That is all I have been saying.

[Swedish Butt-Whistle]

I only disagree with your opinion that he'd be left unclaimed, or wouldn't find playing time on any other roster. Not sure he'd ever be as productive as he would here(credit to Cam and offensive scheme) but I believe he'd be claimed in a hurry. 

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, Swedish Butt-Whistle said:

I only disagree with your opinion that he'd be left unclaimed, or wouldn't find playing time on any other roster. Not sure he'd ever be as productive as he would here(credit to Cam and offensive scheme) but I believe he'd be claimed in a hurry. 

Well, I kind of capitulated on that point due to his play this season. He may have showed enough this season where a receiver needy team would roll the dice on him. I don't know if there is anything to lose by putting in a claim (maybe waiver position or something, I don't know) so why not? I just don't think that it'd be a guarantee.