Kroenke points to Cam as a model for the L.A. Rams

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, FootballMaestro said:

With all due respect; this is so greatly exaggerated and a lie. It's been said before.

Mike Mayock, Nolan N, etc., are not NFL people. But somehow we seem to pay more attention them (I guess cause most of us have no access to NFL people, and they don't talk or give their picks, ideas to media or faux draft "experts), even after the fact. LOL

NFL people (and their scouting and investigation services) wholeheartedly disagreed with your statement.

This is what's hard to sink in for so many people here on The Huddle: TV guys-like Mayock (albeit experienced) were saying one thing. However, NFL teams and their scouting and investigation services (who actually did the interviews, background checks and broke down film, etc.) had another opinion. There was a reason why Newton was the #1 pick. And he was the consensus #1 pick by the time the draft rolled around. We can't help it, if TV people wanted to play up Blaine Gabbert, or hold onto unproven lies for their own reasons or ratings. 

So when Rivera says 'we broke down film and saw NFL throws'. 'We saw most of his runs were called runs, and he stood in the pocket'. 'All his coaches through out his career loved him; talking about how hard a worker he was'. 'And he's grown up as a young man', etc. It wasn't the Panthers only. They got a lot of this from the NFL scouting pool. I read some of these myself.

There was no excitement with the Sam Bradford pick. He was just a #1 pick by default. However, even knuckleheads like Mel Kiper (to quote a TV guy/faux draft analysts as you did) said about Newton: 'he has the talent to be the best QB ever'. We never heard anyone say anything even remotely close about Bradford. Of course, Kiper indicated Newton could also be a bust. But that's because many of the "character" issues with Newton were totally unfounded under any scrutiny or cursory background checks. And this is exactly what NFL people did and found when looking into Newton's throwing, playing calling, relationship and coach ability. It was almost like an alternate universe. So never confuse TV people with NFL people.

So the "risk" in Newton, was mainly in all the lies so many unknowing TV guys were spouting.

I know Huddler's love to complain about Newton and his lack of respect or whatever. We've all done it; including me. But he wasn't nearly as bad a draft pick as many want us to believe. That's just not true, and revisionist history in it's own right.

 

You proved my point. Your revisionist retelling of the story is exactly what I am talking about.   Newton was touted as a one read and run quarterback who knew almost nothing about NFL offenses and defenses. He got the number of the play from the coach and ran that play. If his first read wasn't open he ran the ball. Let's not forget he ran the ball almost as much as he threw it. 

You have no idea what you are talking about but let me refresh you memory.  His proday he only completed 50 out of 60 passes with no defenders and his own receivers.  He got mixed results with everyone applauding his strong arm but decrying his poor mechanics and poor accuracy. And this was better than his results at the combine which were not good at all in the throwing drills although he did well running and doing the athletic events. 

His interview with Jon Gruden on national television was a disaster. He couldn't even call out a pro style play instead saying they used numbers like 15 or red gun 12.  The allegations against his father were real and happened. Newton was exonerated in that he supposedly didn't know about them and there was no money exchanged hands but the talks did occur and the father did approach Mississippi state through an agent. Since Cam went to Auburn and received no money things were dropped. But even his father recently admitted he fell on the sword to make sure his son was eligible to play in the NFL and nothing would fall on him. And of course the cheating in exams and receiving stolen property were proven true as he was found guilty of all of that and he left school before he was potentially expelled.

The Panthers did more due diligence than any other team and it took them months to decide he was their man. It was hardly unanimous or even the majority opinion that he would be a star. In fact some insiders like Casserly felt he would need years to be a starter.

And before you  pulled out the hater card, go back and read my posts from 2011. I was one of the first guys to come out and say I wanted him in the draft and have been a huge supporter of his since. I will be at the game tomorrow wearing his jersey.  

But as I said if you think the majority of NFL executives thought that he was the best quarterback in the draft or that he wasn't a huge risk you have no clue. The truth is that he can thank the rookie salary cap as the main reason we took a chance on him.  There is no way in hell we would have signed him to a 100 million dollar contract coming out of college.  But at 22 million for 4 years he was worth the risk.

thanks for proving my point.

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

9 hours ago, SIGCHI222 said:

Although I meant this must be what it's like for everybody to want you, I like your particular post enough to contemplate it's meaning for the next few minutes.

I contemplated the meaning of that poster a lot when I was a teenager.

[QueensKing]

Too bad Stan... you're not getting a "Cam" he is the only 1.  Copycat league so people will keep trying... There will never be another MJ, another Shaq, another LeBron, another Cam, but that won't stop people from looking... he is 1 of 1.  

 

Greatness isn't replicated, it manifests itself and doesn't reappear in duplicate form.  Be jealous.  

[tiger7_88]

10 hours ago, Kevin Greene said:

This is what it felt like to have giant nipples?

I was more of a Cheryl Tiegs guy myself, back in the day...

And I didn't even include the poster that REALLY fascinated me as a young teen because it isn't forum-appropriate... lol.

[beastson]

Lol he straight took a shot at Bradford 

[tiger7_88]

8 hours ago, Promethean Forerunner said:

Considering what he just did to Alabama's defense... the whole fugging world is an expert. Watson will go #1 overall barring some massive injury or regression. The kid is a playmaker with decent mechanics. 

He's definitely not a Cam Newton.

But, if his progress continues, he will be MORE than a Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota.

So, yeah, for sure he's headed for the #1 pick if only for this reason: Good QBs are the most DIFFICULT position to find.  Throw in his absolutely obvious skills?  That makes it easier.

[tiger7_88]

8 hours ago, Liminy said:

Kroenke is a piece of poo 

Why do you say this?

Is it because he's moving HIS BUSINESS to an area he and others feel that the team has a greater chance of success? 

[tiger7_88]

1 hour ago, FootballMaestro said:

With all due respect; this is so greatly exaggerated and a lie. It's been said before.

Mike Mayock, Nolan N, etc., are not NFL people. But somehow we seem to pay more attention them (I guess cause most of us have no access to NFL people, and they don't talk or give their picks, ideas to media or faux draft "experts), even after the fact. LOL

NFL people (and their scouting and investigation services) wholeheartedly disagreed with your statement.

 

A lot of the opinions of guys like Nawrocki and Mayock had been given to them *from* NFL people.

So, no, NFL people en masse did not "wholeheartedly disagree".

[FootballMaestro]

57 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You proved my point. Your revisionist retelling of the story is exactly what I am talking about.   Newton was touted as a one read and run quarterback who knew almost nothing about NFL offenses and defenses. He got the number of the play from the coach and ran that play. If his first read wasn't open he ran the ball. Let's not forget he ran the ball almost as much as he threw it. 

You have no idea what you are talking about but let me refresh you memory.  His proday he only completed 50 out of 60 passes with no defenders and his own receivers.  He got mixed results with everyone applauding his strong arm but decrying his poor mechanics and poor accuracy. And this was better than his results at the combine which were not good at all in the throwing drills although he did well running and doing the athletic events. 

His interview with Jon Gruden on national television was a disaster. He couldn't even call out a pro style play instead saying they used numbers like 15 or red gun 12.  The allegations against his father were real and happened. Newton was exonerated in that he supposedly didn't know about them and there was no money exchanged hands but the talks did occur and the father did approach Mississippi state through an agent. Since Cam went to Auburn and received no money things were dropped. But even his father recently admitted he fell on the sword to make sure his son was eligible to play in the NFL and nothing would fall on him. And of course the cheating in exams and receiving stolen property were proven true as he was found guilty of all of that and he left school before he was potentially expelled.

The Panthers did more due diligence than any other team and it took them months to decide he was their man. It was hardly unanimous or even the majority opinion that he would be a star. In fact some insiders like Casserly felt he would need years to be a starter.

And before you  pulled out the hater card, go back and read my posts from 2011. I was one of the first guys to come out and say I wanted him in the draft and have been a huge supporter of his since. I will be at the game tomorrow wearing his jersey.  

But as I said if you think the majority of NFL executives thought that he was the best quarterback in the draft or that he wasn't a huge risk you have no clue. The truth is that he can thank the rookie salary cap as the main reason we took a chance on him.  There is no way in hell we would have signed him to a 100 million dollar contract coming out of college.  But at 22 million for 4 years he was worth the risk.

thanks for proving my point.

 

 

Again.

You're confusing TV people who have no part of the decision making process with NFL people, and getting quite emotional, I see. 

I read the NFL people at the time (and some of these scouting reports), which held an entirely different view.

I heard the Buffalo GM at the time (when asked) who echoed the same sentiments Rivera did when asked about Newton and his draft position and QB bonafides by the average dumb fan. I even heard Mel Kiper (eventually; presumably because of this), call Cam Newton "The Consensus #1 pick" when asked at the time. So I'm not sure what you're saying.

This stuff was even present in the general media if you wanted to find it (like anything else) as well.

I repeat: The NFL Scouting Services and Pool at the time did not find Newton to be so many of the negative things the general dumb fan and media believe. Even the recent ESPN article indicated this, stating the only they could find when they combed through Cam's background at Auburn was maybe riding a scooter with out a helmet. LOL

You say the Panthers took Months. Marty Hurney (and JR) have said that Cam was their guy from day one. And I've read both Hurney and Rivera say or indicate this. This was even reiterated recently in one of the current articles on Riverboat or the team. Nonetheless, that wouldn't stop them from doing their due diligence; which they did. So I'm not exactly sure what you're saying? They should like or want a guy, then NOT due their due diligence?

The John Gruden thing was a misunderstanding in terminology. But again;  you're being swayed by media and TV. NFL teams can quickly find out through their own interviews, instead of relying on a TV guy (albeit a former coach) what's important, and/or actually happen. So wrong again; that's nothing. Hell, you have NFL prospects who have bad pro days, or who don't go to the combine, but their draft staff doesn't necessarily drop. You make it all sound so monolithic.

BTW: Much of the Panthers info, came from the NFL pool scouting service. So the Panthers only tailored a few things for themselves, such as film breakdown and maybe a few interviews.

Most of the negative notions about Newton were proven false (at the time) with film breakdown, background checks, and coaches interviews. I saw and read some of these at the time myself. So (rinse and repeat) this not revisionist.

It's just that many Huddler's and some Panther fans like to follow the negative (or weren't aware or privy as they wanted to hear what they wanted hear).  I have no stake or claim in the game either way (and do have experience in scouting, and sports management in another major sport; so understand the dichotomy between what fans and media thinks, vs professional teams and agents). I'm just telling you how I saw it, as I wasn't on this site clamoring for or against Cam Newton.

Nonetheless. It's okay to believe what you want.

[FootballMaestro]

57 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

A lot of the opinions of guys like Nawrocki and Mayock had been given to them *from* NFL people.

So, no, NFL people en masse did not "wholeheartedly disagree".

Yeah, if they wanted to fool people about their draft position or something. LOL

However, I find this hard to believe (if not impossible), unless these guys were dumb.

I knew in 2011 myself, that every thing regarding Newton's background check pertaining to his character; NFL arm; relationships; coaching, leadership etc., was a total lie.

In other words: While Mayock and Nolan N were saying this. There were scouting reports (both NFL related and independent) who contradicted everything they said, and didn't even make a big deal about it. It just wasn't true.

[tiger7_88]

4 minutes ago, FootballMaestro said:

Yeah, if they wanted to fool people about their draft position or something. LOL

However, I find this hard to believe (if not impossible), unless these guys were dumb.

Do you see some of the draft picks some "NFL people" make?  OF COURSE some of them (lots of them?) are dumb.

Quote

 

I knew in 2011 myself, that every thing regarding Newton's background check pertaining to his character; NFL arm; relationships; coaching, leadership etc., was a total lie.

In other words: While Mayock and Nolan N were saying this. There were scouting reports (both NFL related and independent) who contradicted everything they said, and didn't even make a big deal about it. It just wasn't true.

 

Some people aren't looking for the truth.  Some people are looking to reinforce their already pre-conceived biases.  And there are always plenty of stupid people out there ready and willing to give them what they want.

[FootballMaestro]

1 minute ago, tiger7_88 said:

Do you see some of the draft picks some "NFL people" make?  OF COURSE some of them (lots of them?) are dumb.

Some people aren't looking for the truth.  Some people are looking to reinforce their already pre-conceived biases.  And there are always plenty of stupid people out there ready and willing to give them what they want.

Yeah, but that's not what happened with Newton. I promise you.

I know it's hard for many of us to believe and understand, following media so much. But that's wasn't the case. The scouting reports didn't even make a big deal about this stuff. They very matter of factly dismissed many of the egregious concerns about Newton and moved on. Just like that. No fanfare.

As I said earlier. I had read comments by the Buffalo GM who had the same sentiments as those reports, and Rivera.

So in other words: You may have your opinion on Newton coming out of his type of offense, and how great he could be. Sure. However, the attacks on his coachability, leadership, worth ethic, and relationships with people were sterling! And everyone I've ever read who did these things (as the recent ESPN article echoed) found the same things.  It's not revisionist. This is what were in the reports back then. As I said: it was an alternate universe, really.

PS: Tiger. I'm not even sure if you care (I know I don't).

But the Miami Herald Newspaper, had an excellent series on prospective draft picks in 2011 (not sure if they still do this series).

It was a combination of NFL investigators, reporters, and scouting service info, who actually cited interviews, background checks (right down to his high school, JUCO, FLORIDA, and AUBURN coaches, their kids, and even the social service people Cam donated his time to.

They interviewed everybody. So when  you read the level of detail that these people went into to investigate Cam. They stuff you heard from Mayock and Nolan N, was all hogwosh. Cause I never read an actual real NFL scouting report (or one similar with actual interviews and background checks) that went against this, FWIW.

So yes, they were lying or duped at the time. LOL

[Nomad82]

25 minutes ago, chris999 said:

I am just glad they didnt get our team.

 

The Panthers are hot right now, one of the most popular teams, and probably the fastest growing fan base.

I'm sure they tried to buy out Richardson, I'm glad he didnt sell out.

Consider yourselves (mine included now) lucky. Jerry Richardson is the real deal.

[Nomad82]

2 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

Why do you say this?

Is it because he's moving HIS BUSINESS to an area he and others feel that the team has a greater chance of success? 

This is.....I'll be nice.

Surely it's St. Louis' fault that they have a 12 year losing streak. Twelve. It's also their fault they have drafted poorly in April during that time span, actually it began in 2000 but whatever, (Sans Steven Jackson and Aaron Donald) after another.

NFL football in St. Louis had a 328-395-15 record. 48 years of mostly bad football. And the NFL wonders why they stopped selling out in 2007.

There's no such thing as a bad sports town, just shitty ownership and teams.