Star Wars TFA Discussion <Spoilers>

[CarolinaCoolin]

22 hours ago, Woodie said:

I think there are a lot of people overthinking this movie.  First of all, I've gotten the impression from interview I have seen that the similarities to the original were intentional.  After the prequels veered so far off course from what Star Wars is, they had to reign it back in and bring it to a familiar and comfortable place.  I also think people forget that this is an introductory movie.  It was designed to introduce the new characters, re-introduce the old familiar ones, and set the stage for the rest of the series.  But in order to do that, they had to get people back to the place they were after ROTJ.  So, for those complaining, blame George Lucas, he's the one that altered the SW universe so bad that it had to be readjusted in order to get it back on track.

Also, you can't compare Kylo Ren to Darth Vader, or any fully developed minion of the dark side.  He is intentionally made to have moments of weakness.  He's still a kid (relatively speaking) and doesn't have full control of his emotions or the force yet...and he is only partially trained.  Someone mentioned how he was different with and without the mask, and felt it should have been explained better.  But you have to remember that this is not a stand alone movie, we've barely learned anything about him or his motivations.  It's something they are sure to include as plot points in the upcoming films.  But in general, Ren with the mask represented the badass master he will eventually be, but no mask represents the insecure undisciplined kid that is trying desperately to live up to the legacy of his grandfather.  This is one issue that requires some patience, and all will be revealed.

 As for the final fight between Rey & Finn and Kylo Ren, it made perfect sense.  Finn, overall, was not doing very well and Ren clearly was in total control.  All Finn was doing was launching a mindless and unskilled attack that didn't pose much of a threat, yet Ren had to be careful since it was so unpredictable.  But once he figured it out, he destroyed Finn.  And if you remember, earlier in the movie they showed that Rey was a badass with her staff, and as such, would logically have some ability pick up a new weapon and at least be a basic threat.  But even so, she was losing and Ren could have killed her, but instead tried to turn her. 

Lastly, many of the questions or issues that people want answered will be answered in the following films.  TFA only set the stage, the next movies will start fleshing it out.  In this case, patience is the magic word.

 

pretty much this. well written. the movie is the most star wars movie since the 80's. its only getting better from here

[Lemory]

Also, how fuging awesome was it to see Ren stop a blaster bolt in mid air. 

[stankowalski]

Pretty much agree with Philly's take on the movie although I'd score it a 6 instead of 8.  Slightly above average but nothing special.

[TbTeRRoR]

I gotta question.  Who the F returned balance back to the force...  if it Was Luke we wouldn't be having these movies

[Cary Kollins]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2015 at 2:22 AM, Woodie said:

Oh, about Rey using the force on the storm trooper and withstanding Kylo Ren, she is naturally very strong in the force, she is just untrained in how to use it.  And until Ren tried using it on her to learn about the map, I don't think she even knew she had it in her to use it.  But Ren's attempt to breakthrough her mind actually backfired and awoke her innate abilities.  And since his training is incomplete, he likely hasn't developed the skills and nuances and was unprepared to overcome her level of resistance.  Also, while Rey may have been untrained in using the force, I'm sure she at least knew about it.  So with the storm trooper, she knew that she could manipulate him with her newfound ability...she just needed to figure out how.  And that's why you saw her struggle at first, but gain control after a few attempts.

 

possible spoiler (but really just speculation) below

 

One fan theory is that Rey was in fact trained in the force as a child...and that training was by none other than Luke Skywalker. When Ben Solo (Kylo Ren) turned to the Dark Side, Rey escaped and was left on Jakku by her family (is Luke her father???).

She had no recollection of the training (possibly Jedi-mind erased), but eventually it kicked in when the Dark Side was used against her (maybe a trigger installed by Luke???).

I love the new characters TFA introduced and the direction the story is headed.

Upon reading Rian Johnsn's script for Episode 8, JJ Abrams said he wishes he was the one directing that film, because the script is so good.

What a time to be alive.

[Cary Kollins]

Here's some necessary reading to understand a little bit more about what the hell is going on in TFA:

 

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It turns out we might need slightly more political context for Star Wars: The Force Awakens - context the movie doesn't supply. But it turns out some of the now-canon tie-in books do, and I've spent a little while at Wookieepedia figuring out just what the hell is up with The Resistance and the First Order. 

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A little history: the Galactic Civil War didn't exactly end with the Battle of Endor. While that was the decisive turning point, it seems to have gone on for one more year, with the final final battle happening at Jakku. The Rebels formed the New Republic while the shattered remains of the Empire limped out to the Outer Rim, where you can easily disappear. It's wild space out there. Think of it like the Nazis who escaped to Argentina. 

The Rebels set up the New Republic and, for reasons that escape me, established their capitol in the Hosnian System, on Hosnian Prime. While I get that Palpatine probably stunk up Coruscant, that planet was the seat of power of the Old Republic as well - I don't quite know why they moved. Maybe it's so that when Starkiller Base blows up a planet it isn't Coruscant, even though the planet blown up in The Force Awakens looks, for all intents and purposes, like Coruscant. 

While the New Republic was getting back into the business of being a democratic society - ie, a lot of bickering and fighting and stalemates and poltical nonsense - the shards of the Empire were reforming on the Outer Rim under the guidance of the mysterious Supreme Leader Snoke. Most in the New Republic ignore the growing menace of the First Order, but not Leia - after all, the Organas have a history of seeing bad poo coming down the pike. She pleads with the New Republic to deal with the FIrst Order, but everybody thinks she's overreacting; finally she's able to convince the powers-that-be to let her go off and lead a small resistance group which she then imaginatively names The Resistance. Basically this is like when the US sends advisors and some money and weapons to support an insurgent group in a communist (or now Islamic) country. The New Republic isn't fighting the war - the logo of The Resistance is pointedly the same as the logo of the Rebel Alliance, not The New Republic (which, to be fair, is pretty similar anyway) - but they're kind of fighting a proxy war led by Leia. 

That's the basic set up; when The First Order blows up Hosnian Prime it's basically like a terrorist group going after the US because it has supported fighters in their home region. It's an extravagant move, of course, but The First Order, influenced greatly by the Empire, seems to think big. 

 

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/18/what-the-hell-is-the-story-with-the-resistance-and-the-first-order-in-the-f

[TheRed]

I thoroughly enjoyed it, not going to bother nitpicking over little things. 10/10.

[lightsout]

Saw it. Loved it. Like, a lot. Bought Star Wars: Battlefront for my PS4 specifically because of it.


I have some thoughts/theories that I've been kicking around. Hear me out on some of these, as I feel like they're really possible in some cases.

-Rey, Poe, and Finn were all great characters. The way they introduced Finn was great. You knew he'd have an impact as soon as the blood touched his mask and you saw his reaction to the fight. Poe is a funny, fun character. I'm thinking he becomes a Han-type character...which leads to point 2

-We're going to see a fresh cast entirely at some point, and Rey, Poe, and Finn are the beginnings of this. Will be cool to see if I'm right. The nostalgia of old, beloved characters is great, but you want something that matches the originality of the original trilogy without relying ON the original trilogy. I think the ANH parallels were meant to hook us. It worked. They didn't try to hide it. It's a nice little push to everybody. Sort of like, "see, long-time fans? This won't be like 1, 2, and 3. This will be made like 4, 5, and 6. New fans, see, you know the big name characters, and here are most of them, but this is a good launching point for you to jump on. C'mon, you know you wanna..."

-Han's role is bigger than just nostalgia to me. Here's why. He knew something was different with Rey from the moment she started helping with the Falcon and whatnot. Then, just before Rey goes and finds the lightsaber, you see Han look at Maz when she asks who the girl is. What if he knew she's Luke's daughter and tells Maz? When Maz goes to find Rey, after originally knowing NOTHING about  her, she is so keen on WHY she was drawn down there to find the lightsaber and Maz really wanted her to take it. She's not freaking Yoda. She doesn't just sense something like that. She found out that she is Luke's daughter and went to nudge her toward the path that leads her to Luke, knowing the fight that is eventually coming with the First Order.

-Let's suppose something. We basically know Kylo was originally trained by Luke, but turned. That would mean that Han likely knows of any children Luke has, especially due to Leia. The theory that someone mentioned of Luke dropping Rey in Jakku and leaving makes a lot of sense in the context of protecting her. Wipes her memory, takes off, all to keep Kylo Ren away from her, because she'd be just as strong as anybody given her lineage. That makes her either a threat to Ren or a possibility of being corrupted by the dark side via Ren. Luke failed to keep Kylo from the dark side, and feared what would happen if Kylo AND Rey both ended up being on the dark side (Luke either having two Vaders on his hands or having to become Vader to stop them). Kylo never knows that Rey is strong in the force without her finding the droid that held the map and her seeing it herself. He interrogates her, the force with her keeps her from breaking, he's strong enough to sense it obviously, and there you go. Han KNOWS his son is turning to the dark side due to Luke telling him about the training failure and his general knowledge of all things space-politics. Notice how reluctant he is to reveal much of his intentions with asking her to man the Falcon with him? Think it's JUST for her know-how? By the way, how does Rey know so much about the Falcon? And how did she know about Jedi mind tricks? Perhaps she remembered some training that Luke gave her that he didn't wipe when he wiped her memory of him? Anyway, back to Han wanting her just for her help. God no. It's to protect Luke's daughter and care for her in Luke's absence (all while knowing that he'd be helping her to find Luke). Notice the calm Han had about her when they went to rescue her? She's a freaking Skywalker and he knows it, so he's cool about her. Knows she can take care of herself. Rey realizes her lineage upon going to find Luke. The look in his eyes, the look in hers. She's scared and hopeful and happy all at once. Everything over the course of the movie pointed her to being connected to Luke in SOME way, so even if she isn't suspecting that she's his daughter, she is at least considering some connection there.

-The feels when Rey sees Leia after Han dies. Ohhh man. I about teared up. Not gonna lie. But that begs a question. Sure, they're both force sensitive. Sure, they're both connected by Han. But they haven't met. And there was an intimacy there. Like Han likely told her "btw, that's Luke's daughter that our son has hostage....soooo, this is kind of a big deal".

-I originally hated Ren when he took off the helmet. Helmet on, awesome villain. Helmet off, awkward boy. But, after reading the comments here, I don't mind it. He's not a full-fledged "big bad". The way the General spoke to him some sort of suggested this. They fear his power, but don't accept him as anything more than the muscle of their faction. This will change, I'm sure, but I hope they start showing his maturation into full-fledged bad guy who is feared and respected by all that associate with him.

 

 

[h0llywood]

Best fan theory that I have read so far:

 

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OK SO WE GOT OUT OF OUR SECOND THE FORCE AWAKENS SHOWING AND MY DAD WAS DRIVING US HOME AND OUT OF NOWHERE HE WAS LIKE: ………………….oh my god. w HAT IF KYLO REN CHOSE TO GO TO THE DARK SIDE SO HE COULD HELP THE LIGHT SIDE! AND I WAS LIKE WHAT! SO HE WAS LIKE HEAR ME OUT WHAT IF HE WENT TO THE DARK SIDE JUST SO HE COULD KILL SNOKE!!!! 

AND THATS WHY HE’S SO CONFLICTED, AND THATS WHY HE FEELS THE TEMPTATION OF THE LIGHT SIDE STRONGER THAN THE DARK!!!!! 

THATS WHY HE TALKS TO VADER’S HELMET, BECAUSE HE IS GONNA FINISH WHAT ANAKIN, THE CHOSEN ONE, STARTED!!! 

HE HAD TO COMPLETELY TURN AWAY FROM HIS FAMILY IN ORDER TO DO THAT! TO BECOME A SITH FULLY AND COMPLETELY YOU HAVE TO SACRIFICE SOMEONE YOU LOVE TO DEATH, IN HIS CASE IT WAS HAN! 

THATS WHY HE TELLS HAN HE FEELS LIKE HE’S BEING TORN APART INSIDE, BECAUSE HE DOESN’T WANT TO DO IT AT ALL, BUT IT’S THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY TO BECOME A SITH AND COMPLETE HIS TASK!!!!!   KYLO LITERALLY UTTER THE WORDS “WILL YOU HELP ME” TO HAN, AND HAN SAYS “ANYTHING YOU NEED” (OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT I CANT REMEMBER)! WHAT HE’S ASKING IS IF HAN WILL DIE IN ORDER FOR HIM TO COMPLETE HIS fuging TASK 

 THATS WHY IT LOOKED LIKE HE KNEW WHO REY WAS, BECAUSE HE NEEDS TO PROTECT HER THATS WHY HE OFFERS HER TO BE HER TEACHER, HE NEEDS SOMEONE AS POWERFUL AS REY IT’LL BE LITERALLY THE DARK SIDE AND THE LIGHT SIDE JOINING UP TO DEFEAT ONE ENEMY TOGETHER AS ONE, WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT THE FORCE IS.

THEY LIVE SIDE BY SIDE IN IT THATS WHY HE’S SO CONFLICTED ALL THE TIME, THATS WHY HIS FIGHT STYLE ISNT LIKE A SITH’S AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!! 

THEY ARE ALWAYS SAYING THAT THE DARK SIDE AND THE LIGHT ARE TOGETHER IN THE FORCE

THEY NEED THE PERSONIFICATION OF BOTH SIDES (KYLO AND REY) IN ORDER TO BE STRONG ENOUGH TO DESTROY SNOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE LITERALLY HAS TO BECOME A SITH TO JOIN FORCES WITH A JEDI 

 BECAUSE THE LIGHT IN HIM IS SO MUCH STRONGER THAN THE DARK AND HE HAS TO GET RID OF IT IN ORDER TO DO WHAT HE HAS TO DO AND SAVE THE GALAXY WITH REY AND LUKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

HE NEEDS TO KNOW WHERE LUKE IS AT ALL TIMES SO THE FIRST ORDER WONT CAPTURE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT IF THEY STAGED LUKE’S JEDI ORDER MASSACRE!!! WHAT IF LUKE KNOWS EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!1 WHAT IF KYLO KNOWS THEY LEFT HER IN JAKKU SO SNOKE WOULD THINK SHE DIED IN THE MASSACRE ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER JEDIS!!!!!!!! AND THATS WHY HE REACTED THAT WAY WHEN THE GUY SAID THE DROID HAD “HELP FROM A GIRL IN JAKKU”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” 

you know how a lot of people are saying: OH BUT IT LOOKS SO MUCH LIKE EPISODE IV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!1 I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT’S ON PURPOSE!!!!!! BECAUSE THE PATH THEY ARE TAKING IS GONNA BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! EPISODE VII WAS LITERALLY JUST AN INTRODUCTION!!!! CALM DOWN PEOPLE PLEASE IT’S GONNA BE AWESOME! 

THIS IS STAR WARS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A PLOT TWIST LIKE THIS IS MANDATORY WE ARE NOT GETTING “REMAKES” OF THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY I PROMISE YOU

 idk if u like it but i THINK ITS SO fuging AWESOME IF THATS THE REASON ITS THE ONLY POSSIBLE GOOD EXPLANATION IN MY HEAD. 

WHY SOMEONE THAT HAS LEIA AS HIS MOTHER, HAN AS HIS FATHER AND LUKE SKYWALKER AS HIS UNCLE WOULD TURN TO THE DARK SIDE U KNO 

HAN DYING WOULDNT BE FOR NOTHING, HE LITERALLY DIED SO HIS FAMILY COULD FINISH SAVING THE GALAXY

REY, KYLO, LUKE, LEIA, FINN AND POE ARE GONNA DESTROY THE LAST SITH TOGETHER AND BRING BALANCE TO THE FORCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cary Kollins]

I like that theory, even better because I pictured a 13 year old kid yelling the entire thing.

[cookinwithgas]

The Force is strong with that Caps Lock button

[CarolinaCoolin]

thats a pretty dope theory. i could see them taking it in that direction

[cgarsmoker]

Han Solo was always my favorite character as a kid and I hated to see him get killed off but I knew it was going to happen.  Harrison Ford was at the point he hated playing that role and was actually pissed that Han didn't die at the end of the first series.  I didn't really dislike Ren that much as a villain but now that I know he killed Han, I do want to see him pay the price for his actions.  Vader was the classic badass.  He projected such a natural intimidating presence that it was suprising when you saw a glimmer of good in him.  I hope Ren develops into more of that type of character and less of the Hayden Christensen type of guy who's always emotionally conflicted.  

 

[cardiackat88.]

Was it just me or was the entire First Order leadership completely incompetent? That General sucked, Rylo fuged up repeatedly, and for fugs sake, EVERYONE on that ship let the best x-wing fighter the resistance had be walked around casually by one storm trooper and hop into a tie fighter unnoticed long enough to start it up etc.

Weird theory: Snoke is not who we see in the hologram, he is someone else wanting to rule the galaxy. Maybe someone we know, maybe someone we have never seen.